2010-01-27T00:57:32      jonstahl has quit IRC
2010-01-27T01:57:45      ErikRose has quit IRC
2010-01-27T07:26:15      rjmcclosky has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T07:35:43      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T07:35:43      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T07:38:33      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T07:39:42      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T07:39:42      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T07:41:05      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T07:41:30      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T07:41:30      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T07:45:14      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T07:48:21      cah190 has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T08:00:21      kevin7kal has quit IRC
2010-01-27T08:26:38      pumazi has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T08:26:53      ChanServ sets mode: +o pumazi
2010-01-27T08:41:32      SnarfBot has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T08:52:29      paul_r has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T08:56:43      brada has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T08:58:00      stuttle has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T09:08:58      kevin7kal has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T09:09:08      ChanServ sets mode: +o kevin7kal
2010-01-27T09:12:29      esteele has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T09:12:30      ChanServ sets mode: +o esteele
2010-01-27T09:27:39      BHoffman has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T09:46:19      rpruyne has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T09:48:22  <stuttle> kevin7kal: Just found this and thought you might be interested if you haven't seen it already: http://www.zotero.org/
2010-01-27T09:48:49  <stuttle> with all the storing and searching you are doing
2010-01-27T09:51:12      cah190 has left #weblion
2010-01-27T09:51:21      netropic has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:01:23      cjohansen has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:01:23      ChanServ sets mode: +o cjohansen
2010-01-27T10:11:23  <kevin7kal> stuttle: hadn't seen it - that is interesting
2010-01-27T10:11:23      cbcunc has quit IRC
2010-01-27T10:11:39      ErikRose has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:11:42  <stuttle> good intro video
2010-01-27T10:11:53      ChanServ sets mode: +o ErikRose
2010-01-27T10:12:11  * ErikRose returns after his 5th-or-so 10.6 freeze in a week.
2010-01-27T10:12:21  <ErikRose> Or maybe it's this monitor USB dongle.
2010-01-27T10:12:34      ramonski has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:13:04  <stuttle> looks like a great tool - much like the gathering, tagging you are doing
2010-01-27T10:13:06  <BHoffman> ErikRose: Are you sure you're not just angling for an iTablet? :)
2010-01-27T10:13:27  <ErikRose> Yeah, when's Apple's shebang?
2010-01-27T10:13:35  <BHoffman> 1:00 today our time.
2010-01-27T10:13:45  <ErikRose> Great.
2010-01-27T10:14:25  <ErikRose> Rememer, kids: free H1N1 vaccine for employees this afternoon from 12-6 in 205 Student Health Center. Build that herd immunitah!
2010-01-27T10:14:37      ramonski has quit IRC
2010-01-27T10:17:27  <BHoffman> Not long ago a presenter at one of the PUG meetings stated that he preferred skinning plone through the web interface because it made for easier upgrades than if you created a product. Do people generally agree or disagree with this?
2010-01-27T10:17:39  <ErikRose> Probably Guy
2010-01-27T10:18:06  <paul_r> yes I believe that is Guy Heckman's stance
2010-01-27T10:18:17  <ErikRose> Rob is the authoritah on that, but that was certainly true in the upgrade from 2.5 to 3.0, because how skin products are done changed.
2010-01-27T10:18:33  <ErikRose> The downside is always lack of FS editing tools and version control.
2010-01-27T10:18:39  <ErikRose> And multi-site deployment
2010-01-27T10:18:55  <ErikRose> But on the upside, you don't have to restart to make changes.
2010-01-27T10:19:06  <ErikRose> The restarting really bothers me.
2010-01-27T10:19:12  <paul_r> if the changes to the theme happen very often there is some validity to Guy's approach, but I like file system themes for the editing tools and version control as ErikRose stated
2010-01-27T10:19:20  <BHoffman> So perhaps it depends on the level of customization and number of sites deployed to?
2010-01-27T10:19:39  <ErikRose> Yeah, if # of sites > 1, then use a product, for sure.
2010-01-27T10:20:03  <ErikRose> A hybrid approach is common: make little patches in the custom folder, and break them out to the product when you can afford a restart.
2010-01-27T10:21:51  <BHoffman> Interesting thought.
2010-01-27T10:23:22  <paul_r> yep, that's what was done at Huck, still is
2010-01-27T10:23:43  <rpruyne> bhoffman, i prefer doing what erikrose just described: make small incremental adjustments in custom folder, reflect them in product, and reinstall product/restart periodically.
2010-01-27T10:24:51  <rpruyne> less crazy than reinstalling, restarting for every tweak.
2010-01-27T10:24:52  <BHoffman> Makes a lot of sense, especially after the site is live.
2010-01-27T10:24:59  <ErikRose> esteele: Looking at that mutable_properties changeset.
2010-01-27T10:25:03  <rpruyne> precisely, bhoffman.
2010-01-27T10:25:12  <esteele> ErikRose: Great.
2010-01-27T10:25:21  <esteele> I tried reverting to an earlier version from Wiggy and it's much better.
2010-01-27T10:25:33  <ErikRose> And heaven help you if you want to change CSS in production. You have to flush your whole cache.
2010-01-27T10:25:49  <ErikRose> Correct is more important than fast.
2010-01-27T10:25:57  <esteele> I think Vincent isn't realizing that the userid is the dict key.
2010-01-27T10:26:39  <ErikRose> Unnggghh?
2010-01-27T10:26:43  <ErikRose> Pah!
2010-01-27T10:26:51  <ErikRose> Did he bench this?
2010-01-27T10:27:04  <esteele> I'm not sure.
2010-01-27T10:27:17  <ErikRose> Which version did you revert to?
2010-01-27T10:27:20  <esteele> I was planning to run profiles on it today.
2010-01-27T10:27:24  * esteele looks..
2010-01-27T10:28:04  <rpruyne> tsimkins, if you're there, i just wanted to tell you that feedmixer is working great. i recommend it for anybody using a lot of rss feeds on their sites.
2010-01-27T10:28:33  <esteele> ErikRose: http://dev.plone.org/collective/browser/Products.PlonePAS/branches/3.x/Products/PlonePAS/plugins/property.py?rev=89691
2010-01-27T10:30:23  <ErikRose> esteele: Do your reversion take into account that user ID and login may be different? (Just checking.)
2010-01-27T10:30:51  <ErikRose> Are we ever getting telephones in the collab rooms?
2010-01-27T10:30:53  <esteele> Not sure.
2010-01-27T10:30:58  <esteele> On both.
2010-01-27T10:31:19  <ErikRose> The dict keys can be only logins or IDs, so one of them is going ot be costly to look up.
2010-01-27T10:31:40  <ErikRose> Unless we keep another map off to the side or something
2010-01-27T10:31:44  <esteele> Are they not the same thing in Plone currently?
2010-01-27T10:31:48  <ErikRose> Not always
2010-01-27T10:31:52  <esteele> Ok.
2010-01-27T10:32:19  <ErikRose> When we change a site from local logins to Access Accounts, we change the existing users' login names without frobbing their IDs.
2010-01-27T10:32:30  <ErikRose> That way, existing role assignments survive.
2010-01-27T10:37:10  <ErikRose> These spinning beachballs will be the death of me.
2010-01-27T10:37:19      simmerdesigns has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:40:03  <paul_r> not you, just your productivity
2010-01-27T10:40:41  <ErikRose> If I can't be productive, it's not worth living! Wahhh!
2010-01-27T10:42:29  <esteele> ErikRose: I need to grab some caffeine. Have time to dig into PAS some more today?
2010-01-27T10:42:44  <esteele> There should be a "when I get back" in there somewhere. :)
2010-01-27T10:43:42  <ErikRose> esteele: Yes. I just need to do a few things to get B&F's machine ready.
2010-01-27T10:44:18  <esteele> Ok. Great
2010-01-27T10:44:21      esteele is now known as esteele|away
2010-01-27T10:45:25      jdeluca has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:46:11  <ErikRose> Is anyone using Parallels in 10.6?
2010-01-27T10:46:23  <ErikRose> I'm a version behind, and it seems crashy. Is anybody using 5.x?
2010-01-27T10:47:33  <jdeluca> No help here - - I use VMWareFusion which has behaved well
2010-01-27T10:47:47      jonstahl has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:47:49  <jdeluca> ErikRose: On another note, Thursday at 2 works fine
2010-01-27T10:47:55  <ErikRose> I'd probably switch to VirtualBox, but...hmm, let me see how migrations are.
2010-01-27T10:47:59  <ErikRose> great
2010-01-27T10:48:07  <jdeluca> see you then
2010-01-27T10:49:02  <ErikRose> It's probably going to take all afternoon if history is any guide.
2010-01-27T10:49:16  <ErikRose> Bring your camping gear.
2010-01-27T10:49:50  <ErikRose> Migration to VirtualBox is slow and painful, for reference: http://www.xyhd.tv/2008/12/technical/how-to-migrate-from-parallels-to-virtualbox/
2010-01-27T10:49:54  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1766 (Product install for mac-its) created <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1766>
2010-01-27T10:50:24      cewing has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:51:33      RobZoneNet has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T10:51:33      ChanServ sets mode: +o RobZoneNet
2010-01-27T10:53:50  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1402 (Recieving an error cron) closed <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1402#comment:4> | Changeset [10191]: Zope restarts no longer cause cron mails when all goes well. Closes ... <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/10191>
2010-01-27T10:54:30      jonstahl has quit IRC
2010-01-27T10:54:43      jdeluca has quit IRC
2010-01-27T10:57:33      jdeluca has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T11:00:48      esteele|away is now known as esteele
2010-01-27T11:09:27  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Upgrading To Snow Leopard created <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/UpgradingToSnowLeopard?version=1>
2010-01-27T11:11:52      cah190 has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T11:24:04  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Erik Rose edited <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/ErikRose?version=43>
2010-01-27T11:24:14      stuttle has quit IRC
2010-01-27T11:36:42      cewing has quit IRC
2010-01-27T11:40:05  <ErikRose> Is there some way to customize keybindings in TextMate?
2010-01-27T11:40:28      michaelmiller has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T11:40:28      ChanServ sets mode: +o michaelmiller
2010-01-27T11:40:44  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Upgrading To Snow Leopard edited <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/UpgradingToSnowLeopard?version=2>
2010-01-27T11:41:06  <ErikRose> Also, is it normal to be able to position the insertion point where there is no text, like off in the middle of some line with no spaces on it?
2010-01-27T11:41:24  <ErikRose> Let me try again: off to the right of some line with no trailing spaces?
2010-01-27T11:43:30  <esteele> ErikRose: The bundle keybindings are set in the bundle editor. Menu stuff is handled through the Keyboard prefs.
2010-01-27T11:43:59      jjmojojjmo_ is now known as jjmojojjmojo
2010-01-27T11:44:20  <ErikRose> OS-level kb prefs?
2010-01-27T11:44:24  <esteele> And opt-click to set the insert point anywhere on the page.
2010-01-27T11:44:25  <esteele> Right.
2010-01-27T11:45:02  <ErikRose> It seems to be defaulting to the "anywhere on the page" behavior for me.
2010-01-27T11:45:24      jjmojojjmojo is now known as jjmojo^lunch
2010-01-27T11:45:35  <ErikRose> jjmojo^lunch: Thanks for the Plone for Education preview!
2010-01-27T11:45:54  <jjmojo^lunch> ErikRose: no problem... lets just see if I actual get around to reading it :P
2010-01-27T11:46:02  <ErikRose> It's short. :-)
2010-01-27T11:46:11  <ErikRose> And I tried to make it fun. You can let me know if I succeeded.
2010-01-27T11:46:23  <jjmojo^lunch> lol yeah I know that makes the procrastination even more embarassing
2010-01-27T11:46:27  <jjmojo^lunch> I gotta go, ttyl
2010-01-27T11:46:35  <ErikRose> Except the skinning chapter. I tried to make that hurt really, really bad. ;-)
2010-01-27T11:46:39  <ErikRose> Bye!
2010-01-27T11:49:28  <ErikRose> Um, esteele? TextMate seems to merge editing actions in the Undo buffer! :-D
2010-01-27T11:49:43  <ErikRose> Or not.
2010-01-27T11:49:45  <ErikRose> I must have pasted that.
2010-01-27T11:52:35  <tsimkins> rpruyne:  Glad you like it!  I'm in the process of adding an option to show images from Plone RSS feeds with a content lead image or news item image.
2010-01-27T11:53:20      jdeluca has quit IRC
2010-01-27T11:54:12  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Upgrading To Snow Leopard edited <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/UpgradingToSnowLeopard?version=3>
2010-01-27T11:56:08  <esteele> ErikRose: I recommend starting your TextMate migration with nabbing GetBundles. http://solutions.treypiepmeier.com/2009/02/25/installing-getbundles-on-a-fresh-copy-of-textmate/
2010-01-27T11:57:09  <ErikRose> NIfty.
2010-01-27T11:57:24  <esteele> And ProjectPlus. http://blog.macromates.com/2008/projectplus/
2010-01-27T11:58:51  <ErikRose> Nom.
2010-01-27T11:59:03  <ErikRose> Did you pay for that?
2010-01-27T11:59:21  <ErikRose> Oops.
2010-01-27T12:04:39  <ErikRose> I'm going to go get my vaccination. bbiab
2010-01-27T12:18:46  <rpruyne> that'll be a good enhancement, tsimkins!
2010-01-27T12:19:34      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T12:19:34      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T12:58:45      jdeluca has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T13:02:20  <paul_r> I created a python script in my theme product skins folder called findFacilityBanner.py it sets a variable to a string and returns the variable. If I add /findFacilityBanner to the end of the site url, I get this error: http://pastie.org/797348   any thoughts?
2010-01-27T13:09:07  <tsimkins> paul_r:  Shot in the dark, but what if you add '.py' onto the end of the script name in the URL?
2010-01-27T13:09:42  <paul_r> roughly the same error
2010-01-27T13:10:52  <paul_r> it's an iPad!
2010-01-27T13:11:25  <paul_r> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0097-rm-eng.jpg
2010-01-27T13:11:50  <rwellar> nice paul_r, watching gizmodo's liveblog here
2010-01-27T13:12:14  <rwellar> (well, until Wordpress just went off the rails)
2010-01-27T13:13:50  <esteele> I don't agree with sticking a Steve Jobs icon on the home screen though. http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0100-rm-eng.jpg
2010-01-27T13:13:58      cewing has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T13:15:14  <rwellar> It's Apple's answer to the old MS Word Paperclip
2010-01-27T13:15:34  <rwellar> "It looks like you're trying to be hip and trendy, would you like help with that?"
2010-01-27T13:16:55      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T13:21:05  <esteele> Now if it just acts as a small secondary monitor while plugged into my computer, I'm sold.
2010-01-27T13:22:11  <esteele> ErikRose: You back yet? :)
2010-01-27T13:22:28  <rpruyne> hmmmm... das.psu.edu throwing proxy error.
2010-01-27T13:33:52  <tsimkins> paul_r:  If you pull that python script out and just put it in the site root, does that throw an error (just to isolate the issue).
2010-01-27T13:34:55  <rpruyne> erikrose, if you are there, das.psu.edu is throwing proxy error. am tailing logs and top; cpu usage does not appear to be the issue.
2010-01-27T13:35:30  <rpruyne> am restarting apache, erikrose.
2010-01-27T13:36:02  <RobZoneNet> ErikRose: isn't here in the office.. must be at lunch
2010-01-27T13:36:28  <paul_r> tsimkins: I created a Script (Python) at the root of the plone site through the ZMI, called it the same thing and it works anywhere in the site
2010-01-27T13:36:29  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1570 (Summary of marketing and communication) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1570#comment:3>
2010-01-27T13:37:37  <rpruyne> thanks, robzonenet.
2010-01-27T13:37:51  <tsimkins> paul_r:  Interesting...  The error seems to indicate that it can't find an item with that name.  I use scripts in a similar manner (for my homepage image and gradient) and I actually have my policy product copy it from the skin into the site root.
2010-01-27T13:38:13  <tsimkins> I'm not sure if there's a way to run it from within the skin.
2010-01-27T13:39:08  <paul_r> I did it on the huck site with a similar script
2010-01-27T13:39:14  <paul_r> not sure why it's not working
2010-01-27T13:39:58  <paul_r> doesn't appear to need any zcml wiring or anything like that
2010-01-27T13:41:14  <tsimkins> I wouldn't think so.  What if you put it in /custom, out of curiousity?
2010-01-27T13:41:43  <paul_r> let me try
2010-01-27T13:42:00      BHoffman has quit IRC
2010-01-27T13:42:06      BHoffman has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T13:42:29      BHoffman has quit IRC
2010-01-27T13:42:54  <paul_r> tsimkins: yep, works in the custom folder as well
2010-01-27T13:43:14  <rpruyne> robzonenet, i need to attend a meeting; will log onto irc from my macbook. if you see erikrose, could you let him know there's a proxying issue with das.psu.edu. i'll keep troubleshooting as well.
2010-01-27T13:43:24      rpruyne has quit IRC
2010-01-27T13:43:25  <RobZoneNet> i will
2010-01-27T13:43:29  <tsimkins> paul_r: Weird... I wonder if it's a skins order thing?
2010-01-27T13:43:30  <paul_r> ah, it does not appear to have loaded from the file system product
2010-01-27T13:44:01  <paul_r> I renamed an existing file and I have restarted plone and reinstalled the product, but if I look through portal_skins, it's showing the old filename and not the new one
2010-01-27T13:44:48  <paul_r> i'm working on doing what I need with tal, and I think it will work
2010-01-27T13:45:41      rosepruyne has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T13:48:23      cewing has quit IRC
2010-01-27T13:49:10  <ErikRose> rosepruyne: Restarting Zope seemed to clear it up.
2010-01-27T13:49:26  <ErikRose> rosepruyne: In the future, if I'm not around, you can tap pumazi and then kevin7kal. They're my backups, in that order.
2010-01-27T13:49:35  <rosepruyne> thanks, erikrose; i tried that once; twice must have been the charm.
2010-01-27T13:50:08  <rosepruyne> thanks, erikrose; i;ll tap pumazi and/or  kevin7kal next time.
2010-01-27T13:50:30  <ErikRose> This Zope hanging thing is the same sort of thing agsci has. I wonder what causes it. YOu have no reason to have data corruption.
2010-01-27T13:50:52  <rosepruyne> interesting, erikrose.
2010-01-27T13:51:09  <rosepruyne> sorry if incoherent, erikrose; am in meeting.
2010-01-27T13:51:20  <ErikRose> That's alright. I am always incoherent. :-)
2010-01-27T13:51:30  <rosepruyne> : )
2010-01-27T13:51:51  <paul_r> tsimkins: found my problem.... pebcak!
2010-01-27T13:52:00  <paul_r> I renamed the file in the WRONG product!
2010-01-27T13:52:05  <tsimkins> paul_r:  Awesome... That would do it!
2010-01-27T13:52:09  <paul_r> yep
2010-01-27T13:52:19  <paul_r> thank goodness for version control
2010-01-27T13:55:38      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T13:55:38      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T13:56:34      cewing has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T13:58:15  <ErikRose> rosepruyne: You don't have any CorruptedDataErrors or POSKeyErrors in your logs.
2010-01-27T13:58:55  <ErikRose> esteele: Want to pair up at 2:30?
2010-01-27T13:59:00  <cewing> ErikRose: ping
2010-01-27T13:59:01  <esteele> ErikRose: Sure.
2010-01-27T13:59:03  <ErikRose> I have to put out a small fire.
2010-01-27T13:59:12  <esteele> Just clearing up a few more failing tests now.
2010-01-27T13:59:18  <ErikRose> great. See you then.
2010-01-27T14:05:14      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T14:29:57      ErikRose_ has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T14:30:05  <paul_r> RobZoneNet: is there some rule about CSS classes not starting with numbers?
2010-01-27T14:31:24  <RobZoneNet> i think there is
2010-01-27T14:31:32  <paul_r> yep, apparently so, thanx
2010-01-27T14:31:47  <RobZoneNet> i was trying to find it on w3c
2010-01-27T14:31:59  <paul_r> i changed it from 3 to three and it worked
2010-01-27T14:36:21  <ErikRose_> esteele: What's your screen-sharing pleasure?
2010-01-27T14:36:52  <esteele> I suppose we can try Breeze?
2010-01-27T14:37:03  <ErikRose_> For just 2 of us, shouldn't iChat have less lag?
2010-01-27T14:37:09  <esteele> Though audio right now is probably not a good idea. There's a guy downstairs banging on my furnace.
2010-01-27T14:37:14  <esteele> Could be.
2010-01-27T14:37:17  <esteele> Happy to try.
2010-01-27T14:39:53      jjmojo^lunch is now known as jjmojojjmojo
2010-01-27T14:45:31      ErikRose has quit IRC
2010-01-27T14:57:51      ErikRose has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T14:57:51      ChanServ sets mode: +o ErikRose
2010-01-27T15:00:54      ErikRose has quit IRC
2010-01-27T15:01:40      ErikRose has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T15:01:41      ChanServ sets mode: +o ErikRose
2010-01-27T15:03:38  <rosepruyne> erikrose, yeah, i haven't experienced any poskeyerrors in nearly 2 years.  is data corruption the cause of zope hanging on agsci?
2010-01-27T15:04:08  <ErikRose> That's what we assume, since they're the ones with data corruption and they have a hang about 5 times a day.
2010-01-27T15:04:27  <ErikRose> You didn't do what they did, so you have no reason to fear.
2010-01-27T15:06:59  <rosepruyne> that's good, erikrose.
2010-01-27T15:07:29  <rosepruyne> i wonder if the hanging issue is due to something else in part; possibly a product that both sites are using. we have a lot of products in common.
2010-01-27T15:07:52  <ErikRose> That's a good thought.
2010-01-27T15:07:57  <ErikRose> I'd love to get this solved.
2010-01-27T15:08:08  <ErikRose> What about feedmixer? That might spin off a thread or something to fetch feeds.
2010-01-27T15:08:24  <ErikRose> Or worse, block an existing thread
2010-01-27T15:09:32  <rosepruyne> i started noticing a lot more hanging when i put content-well portlets in place, but that may be just my imagination. i should check my logs...
2010-01-27T15:09:52  <ErikRose> That would be a real surprise. Unless they have RSS in them or something
2010-01-27T15:10:01  <rosepruyne> well, i've had feedmixer in place for only a few days, erikrose. though i suppose it could be contributing.
2010-01-27T15:10:07  <ErikRose> Have you ever had this before?
2010-01-27T15:12:02  <rosepruyne> well, not exactly like today, erikrose. in the past the server has hung up with heavy cpu usage, although adding some more aggressive caching to file downloads in squid seemed to have helped that a lot.
2010-01-27T15:12:12  <ErikRose> Yes. This is different.
2010-01-27T15:12:23  <ErikRose> Zope accepts a connection but then doesn't respond to any requests.
2010-01-27T15:12:33  <rosepruyne> but today, the cpu usage was low; there wasn't anything crazy happening in the apache logs, and the proxy error showed up. so...
2010-01-27T15:12:44  <ErikRose> I forget what Zope does after its 4 threads have a connection. Does it have a queue?
2010-01-27T15:12:53      ErikRose_ has quit IRC
2010-01-27T15:12:59  <rosepruyne> ...that does make feedmixer look a bit suspicious.
2010-01-27T15:13:20      cbcunc has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T15:13:30  <rosepruyne> not sure, erikrose.
2010-01-27T15:19:42  <rosepruyne> erikrose, it'll be interesting to see if this particular thing becomes a pattern on das.psu.edu. if it does, i might try reversing some of the changes i've made re feedmixer/c-w portlets in the past few days.
2010-01-27T15:20:15  <ErikRose> Yes, you might open a ticket about the hang and start listing suspicions and recent changes.
2010-01-27T15:22:42  <rosepruyne> yeah, good idea, erikrose; i'll do that.
2010-01-27T15:30:17  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [10192]: Added the facility banners <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/10192>
2010-01-27T15:32:09      esteele_ has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T15:32:09      ChanServ sets mode: +o esteele_
2010-01-27T15:35:44  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1767 (site slowdown; proxy error) created <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1767>
2010-01-27T15:40:55  <rosepruyne> ah, my web conference presentation proposal was accepted.
2010-01-27T15:41:06  <RobZoneNet> mine too :)
2010-01-27T15:41:23  <rosepruyne> sweet, robzonet. : )
2010-01-27T15:46:58  <RobZoneNet> congrats rosepruyne
2010-01-27T15:47:57  <rosepruyne> thanks, robzonenet!
2010-01-27T15:52:38      jdeluca has quit IRC
2010-01-27T15:56:32      jdeluca has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T16:01:10  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1767 (site slowdown; proxy error) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1767#comment:1>
2010-01-27T16:05:37  <tsimkins> ErikRose/rosepruyne:  Interesting thoughts on feedmixer!  I know we use it all over the place in the AgSci site.  Would there be a way to test if it's hanging?
2010-01-27T16:05:52  <ErikRose> Yes. You could remove it and see if the hangs go away. You have about 5 a day!
2010-01-27T16:06:01  <rosepruyne> damn, erik. it just happened again on das.psu.edu.
2010-01-27T16:06:08  <ErikRose> Restart Zope.
2010-01-27T16:06:15  <ErikRose> And take feedmixer out.
2010-01-27T16:06:19  <ErikRose> Not in that order.
2010-01-27T16:06:20  <ErikRose> :-)
2010-01-27T16:06:41  <rosepruyne> i'm going to restart zope, remove the portlets i created with feedmixer, and then uninstall feedmixer. stand by...
2010-01-27T16:06:54  <tsimkins> That would be awesome if we could narrow it down to that...
2010-01-27T16:09:33  <mikehalm> cewing: you get my email?
2010-01-27T16:09:56  <cewing> mikehalm: I did, did you get my reply?
2010-01-27T16:10:58  <mikehalm> cewing: 8AM is early for me too (-;
2010-01-27T16:11:19  <mikehalm> cewing: sorry... trying to bridge the gap.
2010-01-27T16:11:30  <cewing> mikehalm: no worries, I understand :)
2010-01-27T16:12:08  <mikehalm> cewing: glad to finally get this going...
2010-01-27T16:12:24  <cewing> me too.  Thanks for continuing the push
2010-01-27T16:12:27  <tsimkins> ErikRose: I'm trying to think what could be the cause of it.  The only out of the ordinary thing it does is that it uses memoize to cache the feeds.  Besides that, it's hitting RSS feeds every 10 or 20 minutes or so.
2010-01-27T16:12:38  <mikehalm> cewing: my pleasure
2010-01-27T16:13:10  <cewing> mikehalm: gotta run get a late lunch started.  Talk to you soon
2010-01-27T16:13:10  <ErikRose> tsimkins: How does it hit RSS? In which thread?
2010-01-27T16:13:16      cewing has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:13:16  <ErikRose> tsimkins: Is there a timeout?
2010-01-27T16:13:23  <rosepruyne> okay, tsimkins, erikrose, i've ripped out those portlets and have uninstalled feedmixer. let's see what happens next.
2010-01-27T16:13:29  <ErikRose> I could see threads getting tied up doing that.
2010-01-27T16:14:07  <tsimkins> ErikRose:  It uses feedparser to grab the feed.
2010-01-27T16:14:24  <tsimkins> I'm not sure what the default timeout is, though.
2010-01-27T16:14:31  <ErikRose> In what thread? Question still stands.
2010-01-27T16:14:52  <tsimkins> How would I tell?
2010-01-27T16:16:25  <tsimkins> I'm not all that familiar with the Zope threading model.
2010-01-27T16:16:35  <ErikRose> You'd have to read the source, or I will.
2010-01-27T16:16:35  <rosepruyne> tsimkins and erikrose, just before the proxy error, one of my default plone rss feeds disappeared from the das home page.
2010-01-27T16:16:41  <ErikRose> rosepruyne: that's telling.
2010-01-27T16:17:13  <rosepruyne> after i restarted zope the first time, the rss feed still was gone, erikrose.
2010-01-27T16:17:30  <ErikRose> Whatever it does, it should do it with a timeout.
2010-01-27T16:17:47  <tsimkins> ErikRose:  The portlet code is here:  https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/browser/agSciencesCollege/feedmixer/collective/portlet/feedmixer/portlet.py
2010-01-27T16:17:47  <ErikRose> And ideally, it should not bother fetching more than once simultaneously. That way, it shouldn't be able to tie up more than 1 thread.
2010-01-27T16:18:01  <ErikRose> tsimkins: Ticket that, and I'll have a look later. I'm sprinting at the moment.
2010-01-27T16:18:06  <tsimkins> There's nothing explicitly referring to threads in the code.
2010-01-27T16:18:09  <tsimkins> ErikRose:  Rgr.
2010-01-27T16:18:16  <ErikRose> Then it's probably naive
2010-01-27T16:18:21      rjmcclosky has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:20:41  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1767 (site slowdown; proxy error) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1767#comment:2>
2010-01-27T16:21:00  <rosepruyne> tsimkins, i was using feedmixer in content-well portlets sitewide, so if it is a threading issue, that may have exacerbated the whole thing.
2010-01-27T16:21:26      pumazi has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:21:42      brada has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:21:43  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1768 (Change home page portlet links) created <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1768>
2010-01-27T16:22:06  <tsimkins> rosepruyne:  Were the python processes using any CPU during the hang?  We usually see that the load average is about zero, and Python isn't doing anything when ours hangs.
2010-01-27T16:23:07      rpruyne has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T16:23:33      rosepruyne has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:24:55  <tsimkins> rpruyne: Were the python processes using any CPU during the hang?  We usually see that the load average is about zero, and Python isn't doing anything when ours hangs.
2010-01-27T16:25:16  <ErikRose> Looked just like your hangs
2010-01-27T16:25:23  <ErikRose> Nothing in logs, no CPU
2010-01-27T16:26:20  <rpruyne> tsimkins, my python processes were using little or no CPU during the hang.
2010-01-27T16:26:21  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1685 (Define theme colors) closed <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1685#comment:2>
2010-01-27T16:26:32      michaelmiller has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:26:49  <tsimkins> Interesting...  Does memoize do anything with threading?  And would it be a good test to increase the number of threads (if possible) to see if that spaces out our hangs?
2010-01-27T16:28:51  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1686 (Create a logo for SLEIC) closed <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1686#comment:1> | Ticket #1687 (Create the header for the new theme) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1687#comment:2> | Ticket #1695 (Create a theme product) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1695#comment:1>
2010-01-27T16:29:37      cewing has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T16:30:20  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1767 (site slowdown; proxy error) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1767#comment:3>
2010-01-27T16:31:26  <rpruyne> tsimkins, i don't know anything about memoize.
2010-01-27T16:31:27  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1767 (site slowdown; proxy error) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1767#comment:4>
2010-01-27T16:31:31      cah190 has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:31:59  <jdeluca> ErikRose: how big of a performance hit is using portal_squid to purge all indexed objects?
2010-01-27T16:32:13  <jdeluca> Other than having to build the cache back up of course
2010-01-27T16:32:16  <tsimkins> jdeluca:  More of a hit than just nuking from orbit.
2010-01-27T16:32:18  <ErikRose> O(# of indexed objects on your site)
2010-01-27T16:32:42  <ErikRose> Usually less disruptive for your users to just kill Squid.
2010-01-27T16:32:43  <jdeluca> nice tsimkins
2010-01-27T16:33:18  <tsimkins> Interesting...  http://lichota.pl/blog/plone.memoize-and-memcached  memoize apparently uses threads.
2010-01-27T16:33:42  <ErikRose> I think it uses a thread-local storage, but that's it.
2010-01-27T16:33:48  <ErikRose> Don't run too far into that rabbit field.
2010-01-27T16:33:59  <ErikRose> memoize is used everywhere and doesn't cause spins.
2010-01-27T16:34:11  <jdeluca> that's what I figured -- I've been hesitant to use it
2010-01-27T16:34:23  <ErikRose> for that matter, it can't use a thread-local storage for most stuff; thad'd be silly
2010-01-27T16:35:25  <tsimkins> I think I saw that feedmixer uses a RAMCache.  Not sure if that's the same thing.
2010-01-27T16:35:31  <ErikRose> nope
2010-01-27T16:36:49  <rpruyne> das site is faster than it has been in a while, erikrose. i've removed all content-well portlets. i may need to rethink using c-w portlets to provide a site index below the footer sitewide.
2010-01-27T16:36:50  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [10193]: Added ability to show images in the feed. Requires a content lead image ... <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/10193>
2010-01-27T16:37:04  <ErikRose> rpruyne: Huh, weird. Could it be coincidence?
2010-01-27T16:37:50  <tsimkins> ErikRose:  Following on the threading theory, do you think it would be worth bumping up the zserver-threads to 6 to see if it spaces out the times between hangs?
2010-01-27T16:37:56  <rpruyne> erikrose, well, i think two things were at play today. whatever was causing the proxy error (which points to feedmxier at the moment) and the heavy use of c-w portlets sitewide.
2010-01-27T16:38:17  <ErikRose> tsimkins: They're pretty random, so I doubt you'd be able to get significant results from that, and it'd hurt performance meanwhile.
2010-01-27T16:38:18  <rpruyne> two different issues, erikrose.
2010-01-27T16:38:41  <rpruyne> sorry to keep pinging you while you're sprinting, erikrose. : |
2010-01-27T16:38:47  <ErikRose> PONGGGGGG!
2010-01-27T16:40:08  <jdeluca> So, if I update some css (in custom), will that merged file automatically get purged from the cache within a certain amount of time?
2010-01-27T16:42:18  <rpruyne> jdeluca, when i make a css change in the custom folder, if i turn on debugging in portal_css and then turn it right back off again, the css change appears. short-circuits cacheing.
2010-01-27T16:42:35  <rpruyne> i discovered that by accident one day.
2010-01-27T16:42:47  <rpruyne> you may already know that trick. : )
2010-01-27T16:42:52  <jdeluca> i've discussed that with ErikRose ...
2010-01-27T16:43:24  <jdeluca> that makes a new cache-key, but the cached pages are still calling the old file that's no longer there
2010-01-27T16:43:30  <jdeluca> that could be a problem
2010-01-27T16:44:30  <rpruyne> true, jdeluca. i've been getting away with it for a while now. it will probably catch up with me someday.
2010-01-27T16:44:37  <tsimkins> Yeah, that causes the "white screen of death" when it can't find a css file.
2010-01-27T16:44:51  <tsimkins> I *think* I turned up the cache time for css files to get around that.
2010-01-27T16:45:12  <jdeluca> what is the turn around time tsimkins?
2010-01-27T16:45:16  <rpruyne> yeah, i've seen that before, tsimkins.
2010-01-27T16:45:28  <tsimkins> jdeluca:  For what?
2010-01-27T16:45:38  <jdeluca> for a cached css file
2010-01-27T16:46:03  <jdeluca> will it eventually get purged and refreshed after a certain time
2010-01-27T16:47:51      kevin7kal has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:48:50      rpruyne has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:51:42      cjohansen has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:53:21  <tsimkins> jdeluca:  Let me check our CacheFu settings.
2010-01-27T16:56:37  <tsimkins> jdeluca:  I have ours caching in the browser forever.  So, yeah, you'll probably want to nuke Squid after any CSS changes to be safe.
2010-01-27T16:57:05  <jdeluca> thanks tsimkins
2010-01-27T16:58:59      esteele_ has quit IRC
2010-01-27T16:59:00      jdeluca has left #weblion
2010-01-27T17:03:57  <RobZoneNet> ErikRose: you can search the book
2010-01-27T17:04:05  <ErikRose> Nice.
2010-01-27T17:04:26  <ErikRose> I used to do that with my Palm books. Very handy.
2010-01-27T17:07:24  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [10194]: Additions to RSS template to attach images, and for styling on the ... <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/10194>
2010-01-27T17:07:58  <tsimkins> ErikRose:  Ignore any Zenoss alerts from around 8pm to 10pm.  I'm going to move another site or two into its own Data.fs
2010-01-27T17:08:14  <ErikRose> ok
2010-01-27T17:08:16  <ErikRose> How'd the last one go?
2010-01-27T17:08:42  <tsimkins> ErikRose:  Really well.  I have about half the sites  moved over, but those were the smaller ones.  I'm going to try a bit larger one or two tonight.
2010-01-27T17:08:54  <ErikRose> Oooo.
2010-01-27T17:09:03      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T17:09:03      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T17:10:43      paul_r has quit IRC
2010-01-27T17:12:28  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [10195]: hid the document actions viewlet, tweaked portlet css <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/10195>
2010-01-27T17:19:05      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T17:43:22      ErikRose has quit IRC
2010-01-27T17:47:50      kevin7kal has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T17:50:19      esteele has quit IRC
2010-01-27T17:51:11      esteele has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T17:51:11      ChanServ sets mode: +o esteele
2010-01-27T18:08:27      jjmojojjmojo has quit IRC
2010-01-27T18:11:17      RobZoneNet has quit IRC
2010-01-27T18:11:28      netropic has quit IRC
2010-01-27T18:46:43      esteele has quit IRC
2010-01-27T18:51:35      simmerdesigns has quit IRC
2010-01-27T18:54:30  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #1402 (Recieving an error cron) updated <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/1402#comment:5>
2010-01-27T20:01:07      DigitalD has quit IRC
2010-01-27T20:14:02      esteele has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T20:14:02      ChanServ sets mode: +o esteele
2010-01-27T20:37:38  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [10196]: Added 'feedmixer' image size. <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/10196>
2010-01-27T20:55:57      jonstahl has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T21:00:37      dcnoye has quit IRC
2010-01-27T21:29:35      jonstahl has quit IRC
2010-01-27T21:29:51      jonstahl has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T21:29:53      jonstahl has quit IRC
2010-01-27T22:07:35      cewing has quit IRC
2010-01-27T22:49:54      esteele is now known as esteele|away
2010-01-27T22:57:13      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T22:57:13      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T22:58:30      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T23:04:14      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T23:04:14      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T23:10:39      mattbarkau has quit IRC
2010-01-27T23:18:30      mattbarkau has joined #weblion
2010-01-27T23:18:30      ChanServ sets mode: +o mattbarkau
2010-01-27T23:25:44      jonstahl has joined #weblion