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2008-10-20T10:37:58  <paul_r> If I'm looking at a page and can change the view using the "Display" drop down, can I also specify that display option in the url?
2008-10-20T10:39:11  <catherine-w> paul_r: you mean can you do something like myurl/mypage/myview?
2008-10-20T10:39:23  <paul_r> yeah, I think so
2008-10-20T10:39:34  <paul_r> like myurl/folder/tabular
2008-10-20T10:39:40  <catherine-w> Yes, you should be able to... although having said that, it doesn't always work
2008-10-20T10:39:41  <paul_r> or /myurl/folder/summary
2008-10-20T10:39:49  <catherine-w> Depending on what
2008-10-20T10:40:00  <catherine-w> (arghh.... keyboard and apostrophes)
2008-10-20T10:40:16  <catherine-w> Depending on what's in the view. Viewlets also complicate the picture....
2008-10-20T10:41:04  <paul_r> the end result is that I want to build a custom view for a form's save data adapter and then using SimpleAlias create a link directly to my new view
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2008-10-20T10:41:34  <paul_r> aka replacing the old genetics pre-app web page
2008-10-20T10:41:45  <catherine-w> oooh, lovely :)
2008-10-20T10:42:00  <catherine-w> I would say try it
2008-10-20T10:42:04  <paul_r> yeah I setup the adapter a week or two ago and now I have data in it
2008-10-20T10:42:11  <paul_r> but displaying all the data is not useful
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2008-10-20T10:42:59  <catherine-w> Does PloneFormGen's widget thing not give you options for selecting fields? (In site-setup)
2008-10-20T10:44:45  <paul_r> ah, I should check
2008-10-20T10:45:01  <paul_r> too many places to look for options
2008-10-20T10:46:15  <paul_r> nothing in site setup... only allows you to customize the mail template and permissions
2008-10-20T10:47:32  <catherine-w> morning esteele -- can gloworm let you look at hidden viewlet managers? htmlhead for instance?
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2008-10-20T10:48:34  <esteele> catherine-w: Yes, that's why I added the navtree.
2008-10-20T10:49:13  <catherine-w> great. I'm trying to work out how to change the <title>... </title> tag and it is seriously not straightforward
2008-10-20T10:49:56  <catherine-w> this page http://plone.org/documentation/manual/theme-reference/elements/hiddenelements/plone.htmlhead.title refers to a viewlet
2008-10-20T10:50:06  <catherine-w> But I can't see it in portal_view_customizations....
2008-10-20T10:51:22  <catherine-w> Now looking for it on the filesystem but I can't help but think there must be an easier way....
2008-10-20T10:51:47  <esteele> Yeah, not sure why it wouldn't be in p_v_c.
2008-10-20T10:52:45  <esteele> Oh, right. I remember talking to davisagli about that. I think it's something to do with not having a render method or something along those lines.
2008-10-20T10:52:51  <esteele> But yeah, it should be in there.
2008-10-20T10:53:07  <catherine-w> but I found a render method of a sort in globalui.py
2008-10-20T10:53:33  <catherine-w> headtitle.render()
2008-10-20T10:54:19  <catherine-w> Ah, got it.
2008-10-20T10:54:24  <esteele> I'll have to dig up the conversation.
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2008-10-20T10:54:38  <catherine-w> plone.app.layout.viewlets.common .... method TitleViewlet
2008-10-20T10:55:03  <catherine-w> yeeesh. How to make skinning completely incomprehensible to 99.9% of the human race
2008-10-20T10:55:30  <catherine-w> This used to be in portal_skins and took about 3 seconds to customize
2008-10-20T10:55:48  <catherine-w> It has taken me about 10 minutes to just track down the file....
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2008-10-20T11:27:10  <ErikRose> This otherwise lovely chair can't change the pitch of its seat, in case that's important to anyone..
2008-10-20T11:27:29  * ErikRose will be sticking with his 3-way articulating.
2008-10-20T11:30:16  * catherine-w will also be sticking with this armless chair.... chair arms limit pushing under desk
2008-10-20T11:32:06  <ErikRose> I would certainly have to take the arms off this chair as well.
2008-10-20T11:32:15  <ErikRose> They appear to unscrew straightforwardly.
2008-10-20T11:32:42  <catherine-w> no point paying for arms that will be removed....
2008-10-20T11:32:43  <ErikRose> In other news, I see eggs are causing confusion and pain in the Trac world as well: http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/6827
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2008-10-20T11:33:32  <ErikRose> Oh my chair at home, the arms jut forward like warp nacelles. I just flipped them around so they jut backward: problem solved. :-)
2008-10-20T11:35:28  <catherine-w> ErikRose: that sounds as if it would have the added benefit of stabbing anyone creeping up on you from behind :)
2008-10-20T11:35:40  <ErikRose> Yes, I've been meaning to sharpen them.
2008-10-20T11:36:10  <ErikRose> This chair I'm on now has a cargo pouch in the back.
2008-10-20T11:36:24  <ErikRose> It's got room for at least two guns and a knife.
2008-10-20T11:37:00  <ErikRose> Linear Algebra with Applications also fits nicely.
2008-10-20T11:39:18  * ErikRose upgrades the server.
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2008-10-20T11:48:55  <dcnoye> ErikRose:  did you see this: http://www.zope.org/advisories/advisory-2008-08-12
2008-10-20T11:52:17  * ErikRose finishes.
2008-10-20T11:52:34  <ErikRose> Trac upgrades are really a pain now.
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2008-10-20T12:25:00  <RobZoneNet> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/06/26/flexible-layouts-challenge-for-the-future/
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2008-10-20T13:16:50  <dcnoye> RobZoneNet:  ping
2008-10-20T13:17:02  <RobZoneNet> awk
2008-10-20T13:18:10  <dcnoye> nevermind, i've got it
2008-10-20T13:18:17  <RobZoneNet> ?
2008-10-20T13:18:31  <dcnoye> http://plone.org/news/plone-conference-2008-video-offerings
2008-10-20T13:18:51  <RobZoneNet> wow my video
2008-10-20T13:18:54  <RobZoneNet> heh
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2008-10-20T13:36:48  <paul_r> RobZoneNet: good article on flexible layouts... I was surprised by the 800x600 resolution curve
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2008-10-20T13:50:04  <mib_72hpoq> hello everyone, is there any information available on how to link the FSD product with a MS Active Directory?
2008-10-20T13:52:14  <cewing> mib_72hpoq: in what sense do you want to link them?
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2008-10-20T14:04:12  <paul_r> I'm having some TAL difficulties ... it doesn't seem to want to let me do what I want (not sure if it's possible).
2008-10-20T14:04:17  <paul_r> here is my code: http://paste.plone.org/24486
2008-10-20T14:04:22  <paul_r> the highlighted portion is the problem
2008-10-20T14:04:45  <paul_r> I am displaying data collected from PloneFormGen and trying to only display certain columns, in this case just the subject column.
2008-10-20T14:04:45  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [5483]: Removed some unneeded easy_install components. <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/5483>
2008-10-20T14:05:19  <paul_r> I was able to take care of the headers, but I can't seem to figure out how to handle pulling only a certain row value out
2008-10-20T14:06:05  <catherine-w> paul_r you don't need the tal:omit-tag
2008-10-20T14:06:32  <paul_r> without it, I was getting empty <span></span> when my condition was false
2008-10-20T14:07:09  <catherine-w> yes, but you can say something like <tal:findRowValues tal:repeat="myCell myRow">.... </tal:findRowValues>
2008-10-20T14:07:19  <catherine-w> That won't render any tags
2008-10-20T14:07:58  <catherine-w> In fact you can say <tal:whateverYouLike> as long as you close the tag properly with a </tal:whateverYouLike>
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2008-10-20T14:08:16  <catherine-w> The bit after the tal: can be any string you want
2008-10-20T14:08:32  <catherine-w> I tend to write them so that one can guess what the bit inside the tags is going to do
2008-10-20T14:08:32  <paul_r> I thought so, but I tried that a few hours ago and it errored for some reason, so I moved on
2008-10-20T14:08:55  <paul_r> I realized, I missed some code on line 12, here is the updated version: http://paste.plone.org/24487
2008-10-20T14:09:12  <catherine-w> I think the problem with your code is in the tal:repeat somewhere
2008-10-20T14:09:23  <catherine-w> Hang on, lemme find my syntax crib
2008-10-20T14:09:37  <catherine-w> http://www.owlfish.com/software/simpleTAL/tal-guide.html
2008-10-20T14:10:39  <catherine-w> Soooo - you only want the first value to show up?
2008-10-20T14:11:16  <paul_r> well, it's the second
2008-10-20T14:11:23  <paul_r> first is e-mail, then subject
2008-10-20T14:11:28  <paul_r> then two other fields
2008-10-20T14:15:28  <catherine-w> <tal:findValues tal:repeat="myCell myRow"> <td tal:define="whatNum repeat/myCell/number" tal:condition="python:whatNum==2" tal:content="myCell">[cell contents for the second cell only]</td></tal:findValues>
2008-10-20T14:15:50  <catherine-w> That feels very inefficient still
2008-10-20T14:16:25  <catherine-w> What format does context/SavedFormInput have?
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2008-10-20T14:17:05  <paul_r> don't know... how do I find that?
2008-10-20T14:17:21  <catherine-w> try typing /SavedFormInput at the end of your URL
2008-10-20T14:18:11  <catherine-w> By the way: http://plone.org/about/security/advisories/cve-2008-0164
2008-10-20T14:18:56  <catherine-w> another reason to upgrade to Plone 3 ^^
2008-10-20T14:19:20  <paul_r> oh fun, yeah.... I saw something like that but it was specific to livesearch
2008-10-20T14:19:25  <paul_r> your code worked btw
2008-10-20T14:19:32  <paul_r> I swear I have tried that
2008-10-20T14:19:46  <paul_r> my problem was always with the python conditional statement
2008-10-20T14:19:53  <paul_r> it would say that whatNum was not defined
2008-10-20T14:20:16  <catherine-w> You need to do the define before using the condition....
2008-10-20T14:20:32  <paul_r> I thought I did, but maybe not
2008-10-20T14:21:03  <mib_72hpoq> cewing:  I thought I saw in the documentation at one time that you could use active directory as a source for user data.  In the sense that we could create plone users base upon their ms active directory informaiton
2008-10-20T14:21:19  <paul_r> adding /SavedFormInput did nothing
2008-10-20T14:21:24  <catherine-w> hmmm
2008-10-20T14:21:51  <paul_r> I think it's a comma delimited list of the values entered into the form
2008-10-20T14:22:06  <catherine-w> Interesting...
2008-10-20T14:22:07  <cewing> mib_72hpoq: at the moment, that is not possible.  You can use AD as a source for login Authentication, assuming that plone's LDAP implementation supports AD (which i believe to be the case)
2008-10-20T14:22:50  <cewing> We have considered working on ways to source user data from other locations, like AD, LDAP or web services, but have not yet implemented any features like that.
2008-10-20T14:23:00  <cewing> You wanna be the first to write one? :)
2008-10-20T14:23:12  <mib_72hpoq> cewing; thanks I must have been dreaming on that one
2008-10-20T14:23:28  <mib_72hpoq> I am afraid that is way outside the limitations of my skills...
2008-10-20T14:23:37  <cewing> not dreaming,  just a bit ahead of the curve :)
2008-10-20T14:23:52  <cewing> mib_72hpoq: ah well, a guy can hope :)
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2008-10-20T14:24:38  <dcnoye> ErikRose_:  your phone is ringing
2008-10-20T14:24:44  <ErikRose_> Unplug it.
2008-10-20T14:24:53  *** esteele is now known as esteele|away
2008-10-20T14:25:03  <ErikRose_> :-)
2008-10-20T14:25:06  <dcnoye> done
2008-10-20T14:30:40  <paul_r> catherine-w: found the problem with my original code. I was doing the define and condition in different tags and the python test didn't understand the variable I was defining.
2008-10-20T14:30:44  <paul_r> thanx
2008-10-20T14:31:32  <catherine-w> no problemo, paul_r... you got an awful long way on your own :)
2008-10-20T14:33:18  <paul_r> thanx, I'm trying
2008-10-20T14:33:46  <paul_r> concept and methodology are not my problem... syntax and available functionality are
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2008-10-20T14:37:33  <dcnoye> ErikRose_:  your phone is dancing
2008-10-20T14:38:42  <paul_r> thought you unplugged it... is it possessed?
2008-10-20T14:40:46  <paul_r> catherine-w: did you mean 501 or 508 Rider for Plone for Beginners?
2008-10-20T14:40:47  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [5484]: Some CSS changes for the right column. Made the z3c.jbot layer specific, ... <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/5484>
2008-10-20T14:45:55  <paul_r> catherine-w_: did you mean 501 or 508 Rider for P for B?
2008-10-20T14:46:32  <catherine-w_> 501
2008-10-20T14:46:49  <catherine-w_> It's a room new to all of us :) Rebecca booked it
2008-10-20T14:46:56  <paul_r> ok, just checking
2008-10-20T14:47:24  <paul_r> it couldn't be worse than 23 williard :)
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2008-10-20T15:01:50  <ErikRose_> OmniWeb kicks ass.
2008-10-20T15:02:08  <ErikRose_> When I quit, it even saved the radio button selections from my half-finished Web Conf 2009 survey.
2008-10-20T15:02:39  <ErikRose_> Btw, we can probably seriously skew this survey if we want. It's so long that nobody will take it.
2008-10-20T15:02:56  <ErikRose_> Let's actually have interesting things at the Web Conf this year.
2008-10-20T15:03:11  <ErikRose_> I'm campaigning for a track on Lisp and Smalltalk web frameworks.
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2008-10-20T15:21:43  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Bad Content edited <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/BadContent?version=16>
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2008-10-20T15:24:09  <cjohansen> ErikRose_: I voted for the AJAX scripting language
2008-10-20T15:24:21  <cjohansen> ;-)
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2008-10-20T15:24:25  <ErikRose_> hehe
2008-10-20T15:24:43  <ErikRose_> I'm going to design a language and call it AJAX just to confuse everyone.
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2008-10-20T15:25:03  <ErikRose_> As if the bathroom cleaner weren't confusing enough
2008-10-20T15:25:06  *** ErikRose_ is now known as ErikRose
2008-10-20T15:25:06  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ErikRose
2008-10-20T15:25:15  <paul_r> so I have created a custom page template to display PloneFormGen data and I can modify the URL to have it work, but how do I add it so that my page template shows up in the "display" drop down?
2008-10-20T15:27:07  <ErikRose> Woot. We can delete old Trac components from the list without removing them from their tickets.
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2008-10-20T15:32:02  <ErikRose> RobZoneNet_: What do you think of deleting the SearchPSUad54 component? Are you not supporting that anymore?
2008-10-20T15:32:23  <RobZoneNet_> i am not supporting it
2008-10-20T15:32:30  * ErikRose cleanss up.
2008-10-20T15:32:50  <ErikRose> What about plopeInstaller, cjohansen?
2008-10-20T15:32:55  <catherine-w_> paul_r: you need to go into portal_types and find the content type for whatever it is that is displaying your data
2008-10-20T15:33:11  <paul_r> portal_types... thanks
2008-10-20T15:33:12  <catherine-w_> then, add the name of your template to the available view methods
2008-10-20T15:33:24  <catherine-w_> (I take it that your template is sitting in the custom folder?)
2008-10-20T15:33:39  <paul_r> yes it is
2008-10-20T15:33:46  <paul_r> and I found where to add it
2008-10-20T15:34:45  <ErikRose> cjohansen: Are we still accepting bugs on ploneStaticTemplates?
2008-10-20T15:35:15  <cjohansen> Sure, why not? I should update them.
2008-10-20T15:35:18  <ErikRose> ok
2008-10-20T15:35:30  <ErikRose> Just cleaning out dead products from the Components menu.
2008-10-20T15:35:37  <ErikRose> Killed off about a dozen
2008-10-20T15:35:47  <catherine-w_> cjohansen -- we aren't using ploneStaticTemplates with beginners....
2008-10-20T15:36:13  <paul_r> catherine-w_: template works !!! thanks
2008-10-20T15:36:29  <cjohansen> Does a ticket await? I am thrilled with anticipation.
2008-10-20T15:36:30  <catherine-w_> paul_r: cool!
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2008-10-20T15:49:49  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #720 (makes assumkption user_id == login) closed <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/720#comment:1>
2008-10-20T15:51:49  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Ticket #721 (AutoMemberMaker has no security context to create users) closed <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/ticket/721#comment:1>
2008-10-20T15:51:56  <ErikRose> RobZoneNet_: Where's that page you wanted me to look at?
2008-10-20T15:52:17  <ErikRose> dcnoye: Thanks for the video link!
2008-10-20T15:52:29  <RobZoneNet_> ErikRose: http://www.vivabit.com/
2008-10-20T15:52:38  <dcnoye> ErikRose:  which one ?
2008-10-20T15:52:46  <dcnoye> oh, that one
2008-10-20T15:52:56  <ErikRose> Hrrm, still not up.
2008-10-20T15:53:03  <dcnoye> i know...
2008-10-20T15:53:04  <ErikRose> 3 months! Holy crap!
2008-10-20T15:53:10  <dcnoye> read it again
2008-10-20T15:53:14  <dcnoye> 0ct 24
2008-10-20T15:53:24  <ErikRose> Yeah, but that doesn't include any of my talks.
2008-10-20T15:53:30  <ErikRose> Read it again.
2008-10-20T15:53:34  <dcnoye> lol
2008-10-20T15:54:09  <dcnoye> what me to mail aclark about getting them sooner ?
2008-10-20T15:54:19  <dcnoye> s/want/what
2008-10-20T15:54:52  <ErikRose> RobZoneNet_: The fluidity is great. My main complaint is that the useful content is pushed way down the page by the big, useless headers.
2008-10-20T15:55:00  <catherine-w_> +1 ErikRose
2008-10-20T15:55:15  <RobZoneNet_> yeah, i was thinking more fluidity
2008-10-20T15:55:16  <ErikRose> A little over a third of the page (at my default window size) is big useless header.
2008-10-20T15:55:17  <dcnoye> at the very least get'em up on media.plone.org
2008-10-20T15:56:09  <ErikRose> Yeah, the fluidity's pretty doggone good. It doesn't break until you hit column widths of a single word.
2008-10-20T15:56:20  <ErikRose> Not quite as good as table-based, but close
2008-10-20T15:57:07  <ErikRose> Actually, I notice the left-most white round rect starts to come apart at a window width of 380px.
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2008-10-20T16:00:26  <ErikRose> CSS is broken. We shouldn't need to program to get simple things like multicolumn layout.
2008-10-20T16:01:37  <ErikRose> I don't (haven't taken the time to) understand why type blasts through box borders in CSS-laid-out pages.
2008-10-20T16:01:45  <ErikRose> Images do, too, for that matter.
2008-10-20T16:01:59  <catherine-w_> ErikRose: overflow:visible?
2008-10-20T16:02:07  <catherine-w_> vs overflow:hidden?
2008-10-20T16:02:09  <ErikRose> The box border should just refuse to collapse beyond the size of the content.
2008-10-20T16:02:17  <ErikRose> catherine-w_: Hmm, perhaps.
2008-10-20T16:02:25  <RobZoneNet_> it only does it for an extremely long 1 word
2008-10-20T16:02:55  <ErikRose> RobZoneNet_: Why should it do it at all?
2008-10-20T16:03:02  <ErikRose> "brought" is not extremely long.
2008-10-20T16:03:18  <ErikRose> Granted, my column is extremely narrow, but who cares?
2008-10-20T16:03:40  <RobZoneNet_> where can i get this free omniweb
2008-10-20T16:03:47  <ErikRose> I think the overflow declaration is the wrong answer.
2008-10-20T16:04:15  <ErikRose> The table's scaling semantics were much better, where the cell would refuse to get any smaller than its content.
2008-10-20T16:04:38  <ErikRose> http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/
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2008-10-20T16:10:54  <simmerdesigns> ErikRose: set a min-width on that div.
2008-10-20T16:11:06  <simmerdesigns> min-width: 381px
2008-10-20T16:11:15  <simmerdesigns> then it'll behave as you wish.
2008-10-20T16:13:53  <ErikRose> simmerdesigns: Good suggestion, but that only works if you happen to know the width of the content. What if it's full of text? One never knows how big fonts are.
2008-10-20T16:14:11  <ErikRose> And then you're stuck repeating the width of your biggest image in two places.
2008-10-20T16:15:21  <simmerdesigns> you could use em values.
2008-10-20T16:15:26  <RobZoneNet_> if you could just use min-width and max-width all would be great.. but some browsers want to be deity like
2008-10-20T16:15:30  <RobZoneNet_> +1 simmerdesigns
2008-10-20T16:15:48  <simmerdesigns> at some point you have to make a call on how much text size increase you want to handle
2008-10-20T16:15:58  <catherine-w> And some browsers don't understand min-width and max-width (IE anyone?)
2008-10-20T16:16:10  <simmerdesigns> IE6
2008-10-20T16:16:13  <simmerdesigns> 7 seems to behave
2008-10-20T16:16:28  <ErikRose> simmerdesigns: That's great if your text consists wholly of lowercase m's or is monospaced.
2008-10-20T16:16:46  <simmerdesigns> but then you can just feed 6 a regular width: and height:, which it treats as min-width and min-height
2008-10-20T16:16:47  <simmerdesigns> right
2008-10-20T16:17:37  <simmerdesigns> i also then avoid using words like "supercalafragilisticexpialadocious" as headings :)
2008-10-20T16:17:43  <catherine-w> IE = intensely excruciating
2008-10-20T16:17:44  <RobZoneNet_> lol
2008-10-20T16:18:04  <simmerdesigns> i was looking around for the page you mentioned where "brought" was causing a problem ... link?
2008-10-20T16:18:18  <simmerdesigns> Internet Exploder
2008-10-20T16:18:19  <ErikRose> Perfect flowing layout: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/wiki?GoodThing
2008-10-20T16:18:52  <catherine-w> ErikRose: I like fluid layouts... until the line length gets ridiculously long
2008-10-20T16:18:54  <simmerdesigns> er ... yes, technically the absence of layout is a completely fluid layout.
2008-10-20T16:19:03  <ErikRose> catherine-w: Then why is your window so big?
2008-10-20T16:19:29  <catherine-w> 'cos it is
2008-10-20T16:19:34  <ErikRose> simmerdesigns: I thought I'd start you out with something simple. ;-) Two side-by-side table cells, each saying width="50%", also demonstrate perfection.
2008-10-20T16:20:10  <simmerdesigns> i'd quibble over "perfection", though i know what you mean
2008-10-20T16:20:56  <catherine-w> ErikRose: I forebore from asking the obvious rejoinder to your above question....
2008-10-20T16:21:01  <simmerdesigns> i can still do the same with less HTML and a bit of css.
2008-10-20T16:21:03  <ErikRose> catherine-w: My philosophy is that I should be able to arrange my workspace however I like. I don't expect web designers to be clairvoyant.
2008-10-20T16:21:50  <ErikRose> Then I encourage you to, simmerdesigns. I will hold up your pages as objects of praise.
2008-10-20T16:21:54  <ErikRose> :-)
2008-10-20T16:22:05  <simmerdesigns> i look forward to this adulation.
2008-10-20T16:22:15  <catherine-w> ErikRose: if only the rest of the world were like you. Most people expect web folk to be clairvoyant AND telepathic :)
2008-10-20T16:22:41  <ErikRose> We came up with the overlapping, resizable window metaphor 30 years ago, and for some reason we keep avoiding it.
2008-10-20T16:23:06  <catherine-w> "I think I need a website, therefore it shall exist and take no effort or time whatsoever to produce or maintain"
2008-10-20T16:23:48  <ErikRose> Unfortunately, simmerdesigns, I suspect you'll have to make your markup reflect the look of your site in order to have it flow correctly as the width changes. That's what's fundamentally broken about CSS+HTML.
2008-10-20T16:23:56  <ErikRose> (as far as layout goes)
2008-10-20T16:24:00  <ErikRose> (There are plenty of other broken things.)
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2008-10-20T16:24:29  <ErikRose> You can't really move things to arbitrary spots on the page using CSS and still have flow work right.
2008-10-20T16:24:50  <RobZoneNet_> IE = IrritableBowel Ewww
2008-10-20T16:24:54  <ErikRose> The latest trend is to throw up your hands and write layout in JS.
2008-10-20T16:24:55  <simmerdesigns> au contraire: http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/
2008-10-20T16:25:13  <ErikRose> Lol, a fixed-width site about the one true layout. :-)
2008-10-20T16:25:32  <simmerdesigns> actually, em-based width
2008-10-20T16:25:47  <ErikRose> That's fixed in my book. The rest is quibbling about units. ;-)
2008-10-20T16:25:59  <RobZoneNet_> i tried pushing em's with ErikRose but he is having none of it ;)
2008-10-20T16:26:24  <ErikRose> The best you can say for ems in a proportional-width font is that they are "roughly proportional to the font size".
2008-10-20T16:26:29  <simmerdesigns> RobZoneNet_: he does seem rather curmudgeonly, doesn't he?
2008-10-20T16:26:43  <ErikRose> I admit to being a bit demanding. :-)
2008-10-20T16:26:45  <RobZoneNet_> yes hehe
2008-10-20T16:26:48  <ErikRose> But I don't apologize for it. :-)
2008-10-20T16:27:02  <ErikRose> I simply enjoy good things. :-)
2008-10-20T16:27:31  <simmerdesigns> as a wannabe typographer, moderate control over line-length and column width is a GT
2008-10-20T16:28:17  <ErikRose> I appreciate typography as well and spent a lot of time doing page layout. What layout folks need to accept, though, is that the web is designed for presentation of hypertexts, not PDFs.
2008-10-20T16:28:50  <dcnoye> rob did you know that you are here: http://plone.org/about/team/DeveloperTeam
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2008-10-20T16:29:34  <RobZoneNet_> hehe i didn't know
2008-10-20T16:30:05  * ErikRose reads the Any Order Columns article. I've looked at this once before, I think.
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2008-10-20T16:30:44  <simmerdesigns> presentation of hypertexts can be enhanced through design constraints. unstyled hypertext != more usable
2008-10-20T16:30:59  <ErikRose> I agree 100%.
2008-10-20T16:31:23  <ErikRose> Usability can also suffer due to design demands.
2008-10-20T16:31:40  <simmerdesigns> see it all the time, for sure.
2008-10-20T16:31:58  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Customizing Site Actions edited <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/CustomizingSiteActions?version=6>
2008-10-20T16:33:57  <ErikRose> AnyOrderColumns looks good. I wonder if you can do that for, say, nav buttons: items in an UL.
2008-10-20T16:34:47  <ErikRose> What I usually like to happen for a horizontal navbar is for buttons to smoosh to a degree and then finally give up and fall down into a vertical stack.
2008-10-20T16:36:46  <ErikRose> http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/example/equalheightopera8fix doesn't seem to work in my browser.
2008-10-20T16:39:46  <simmerdesigns> for the navbar, you could float them with percentage margins ... trial and error would be necessary
2008-10-20T16:39:47  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: Changeset [5485]: body background image <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/changeset/5485>
2008-10-20T16:39:52  <catherine-w> wow, what a lot of women in that plone developer team list.... not
2008-10-20T16:40:04  <RobZoneNet_> interesting: http://alistapart.com/articles/putyourcontentinmypocketpart2
2008-10-20T16:40:14  <RobZoneNet_> there was a women in plone picture taken
2008-10-20T16:40:25  <catherine-w> a women? Interesting
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2008-10-20T16:44:56  * ErikRose gives http://fu2k.org/alex/css/onetruelayout/example/interactive?order=2-1-3&width=20-40-40&equal_height=1&longest=1&time=1224535185377 his tentative approval.
2008-10-20T16:45:18  <ErikRose> The negative margins are a bit weird, but they're to-standard, and he didn't have to resort to any JS.
2008-10-20T16:46:28  <ErikRose> Spoke too soon: in http://fu2k.org/alex/css/onetruelayout/example/interactive?order=2-1-3&width=20-40-40&equal_height=1&images=1&longest=1&time=1224535545590 , the image gets cut off if you shrink the page.
2008-10-20T16:47:48  <joebigler> I am looking for some suggestions on how to set up a folder on our site so only certain logged in people can view the pages.  Can't make them editors as all we want them to do is view.  Anonymous users shouldn't know the folder is even there.
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2008-10-20T16:48:24  <paul_r> ironic, I'm trying to do a very similar thing
2008-10-20T16:48:34  <paul_r> unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions
2008-10-20T16:49:30  <simmerdesigns> i used groups to do that for a portlet
2008-10-20T16:49:51  <simmerdesigns> create a group, assign arbitrary users to it, then in TAL or python check to see if they're a member of that group
2008-10-20T16:49:53  <cewing> joebigler, paul_r:  can you use the 'reviewer' role given to the group of users, and leave the object in a private state
2008-10-20T16:50:23  <cewing> reviewer gets to view whatever owner can view, but does not get to edit or add content
2008-10-20T16:50:25  <paul_r> but private items don't show up on navigation, or did I miss something?
2008-10-20T16:50:50  <cewing> paul_r: they do for folks who have permissions to view them
2008-10-20T16:50:51  <SnarfBot> webliontickets: View Templates edited <https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/ViewTemplates?version=14>
2008-10-20T16:51:06  <joebigler> cewing:  They should only see published content
2008-10-20T16:51:15  <cewing> who is they?
2008-10-20T16:51:35  <joebigler> cewing:  The people authorized to see the pages
2008-10-20T16:51:57  <cewing> why does the content need to be published to give someone the right to see it?
2008-10-20T16:52:24  <cewing> If something is private, you can still let certain people see it by giving them the local role of 'reviewer' with respect to that piece of content
2008-10-20T16:52:25  <catherine-w> paul_r, joebigler... on plone 2.5 you will manually have to make a role equivalent to Reader in Plone 3
2008-10-20T16:53:00  <joebigler> simmerdesigns:  where could I put that tal code?
2008-10-20T16:53:05  <catherine-w> paul_r, joebigler see https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/IntranetAndExtranet
2008-10-20T16:53:30  <simmerdesigns> my suggestion presumed that you'd have a particular known piece of content such as a portlet or viewlet
2008-10-20T16:53:48  <simmerdesigns> it wouldn't really be applicable to arbitrary folders, i think.
2008-10-20T16:54:07  <simmerdesigns> you'd be better off with something like the Reader role.
2008-10-20T16:54:16  <joebigler> simmerdesigns:  It would be a folder and pages underneath it.  I would know the folder ahead of time, but more pages may be added
2008-10-20T16:54:41  <catherine-w> joebigler: see that wiki page.... I think it will help you
2008-10-20T16:54:55  <simmerdesigns> instead of "content" i should have said "code snippet."
2008-10-20T16:55:03  <joebigler> catherine-w:  Thanks, I will
2008-10-20T16:55:08  <simmerdesigns> catherine-w is on the right track
2008-10-20T16:55:24  * paul_r reads the wiki page on IntranetAndExtranet
2008-10-20T16:55:39  <catherine-w> That's too complicated for what you want, but all the concepts are in there
2008-10-20T17:00:17  <joebigler> catherine-w:  Looks like the right idea.  If it would be possible to limit a folder and its contents to a group, that would be simpler, but I don't see where to place that code.  Creating the reader role should work and I will ;need to do this multiple times so it won't just be for one special case.  Thanks.
2008-10-20T17:00:44  <catherine-w> oooh, joebigler... you shouldn't need to create multiple Reader roles
2008-10-20T17:01:11  <catherine-w> You can give the Reader roles to different groups in different locations
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2008-10-20T17:01:31  <joebigler> catherine-w:  No, what I would do is create one role and apply it in different locations like I do the editor role
2008-10-20T17:01:38  <catherine-w> yes, exactly
2008-10-20T17:01:50  <catherine-w> And you need the role to fit into whatever workflow you are using
2008-10-20T17:02:12  <catherine-w> You may not need to create a completely new workflow as in the example
2008-10-20T17:02:43  <catherine-w> Instead, you could amend a workflow so that Readers could see objects that were (say) in the private or review state
2008-10-20T17:03:12  <joebigler> catherine-w:  Yes, I think the readers will only need to see the published content.  I can probably add it to the existing workflow and just give them the view permission in the published state
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2008-10-20T17:04:47  <joebigler> catherine-w:  I just need to make sure the anonymous users can't see the content in that folder.
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2008-10-20T17:06:15  <catherine-w> hmmmm - so you will need a state that is not "published", I believe
2008-10-20T17:06:33  <catherine-w> Because by definitiion, anonymous people can see stuff that is "published"
2008-10-20T17:07:07  <catherine-w> So you are really after a limitedAccess state, as in the wiki page example
2008-10-20T17:07:28  <joebigler> catherine-w:  My users can see published if the permission is inherited
2008-10-20T17:07:38  <catherine-w> huh?
2008-10-20T17:08:12  <catherine-w> Anyone can see published
2008-10-20T17:08:27  <catherine-w> That's why it's called "published" :)
2008-10-20T17:08:51  <joebigler> catherine-w:  By default, the view will be checked for anonymous in the ZMI.  My workflow controls published.  Only the published state gives them view
2008-10-20T17:09:26  <joebigler> catherine-w: I should have said my workflow controls view
2008-10-20T17:09:51  <catherine-w> So you are using a custom workflow?
2008-10-20T17:10:04  <joebigler> catherine-w: yes
2008-10-20T17:11:14  <catherine-w> So if you go into the properties tab for the "published" state in your custom workflow in portal_workflow, "Anonymous" has the "View" permission?
2008-10-20T17:12:01  <catherine-w> Sorry, I meant "permissions" tab
2008-10-20T17:12:21  <joebigler> catherine-w:  Only if it is inherited.  That way, if I take it off the folder permissions, publishing it doesn't make it show up to the anonymous user.
2008-10-20T17:12:34  <catherine-w> oooohhhhhh - I wouldn't do that
2008-10-20T17:13:12  <joebigler> catherine-w:?
2008-10-20T17:13:25  <catherine-w> So you are proposing to go into the ZMI, and for every folder where you want to restrict access, you are going to go into the security tab for the folder and untick the "view" permission for anonymous?
2008-10-20T17:14:00  * catherine-w is not understanding what you're intending to do, probably
2008-10-20T17:14:20  <joebigler> catherine-w:  It should work for the top folder of each restricted area.
2008-10-20T17:14:28  <catherine-w> what should?
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2008-10-20T17:15:47  <joebigler> catherine-w.  If I uncheck view for anonymous in that folder, nothing below it will inherit the permission, if I uncheck the inherit permissions as well
2008-10-20T17:16:09  <catherine-w> Yes, I just worry that it will become very hard to keep track of, very fast
2008-10-20T17:16:20  <catherine-w> Much better to do it via workflow
2008-10-20T17:16:38  <joebigler> catherine-w:  I know, that's why I was looking for another solution
2008-10-20T17:17:29  <catherine-w> So you could try creating another state, say limitedAccess or whatever, and giving the Reader role (and Editors etc) ability to View things in this state
2008-10-20T17:17:44  <catherine-w> Just as in that wiki page
2008-10-20T17:17:59  <catherine-w> I would try it on a development site, first, though
2008-10-20T17:18:17  <catherine-w> Because the downside of doing it this way is that you will have to move to the new workflow
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2008-10-20T17:18:43  <catherine-w> And you want to check that moving to a new workflow doesn't cause problems in other areas
2008-10-20T17:18:45  <joebigler> catherine-w:  I see what you are saying, and remove the published state?  Or make sure the reviewer knows to put it in the limitedaccess
2008-10-20T17:19:26  <catherine-w> No, don't remove "published". Just give reviewers the ability to choose "published" (anyone can see it) or "limitedAccess" (only select people can see it)
2008-10-20T17:19:41  <catherine-w> That way "published" doesn't mean different things in different parts of your site
2008-10-20T17:20:41  <joebigler> catherine-w:  I will take a look at that idea.  Just want to make sure some editors don't publish restriced content.  Everything in a restricted folder will be restricted.
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2008-10-20T17:21:19  <catherine-w> Well, how's this for an idea
2008-10-20T17:21:29  <catherine-w> You could make some new content types to which a new workflow applies
2008-10-20T17:21:38  <catherine-w> This new workflow doesn't have the "published" state
2008-10-20T17:21:47  <catherine-w> So they can never be "published"
2008-10-20T17:22:01  <catherine-w> It only has the "limitedAccess" state as its endpoint
2008-10-20T17:22:28  <catherine-w> So rather than having a folder, you have a "restricted access folder"
2008-10-20T17:22:41  <catherine-w> And rather than having a page, you have a "restricted access page"
2008-10-20T17:22:51  <joebigler> catherine-w:  That's worth considering.  Make a folder type from folder that is restricted
2008-10-20T17:23:06  * ErikRose smells tomato sauce.
2008-10-20T17:23:10  <catherine-w> The problem with this approach is that at some point in future, you may decide to open up these content types to be visible to everyone
2008-10-20T17:23:15  <catherine-w> And then what do you do
2008-10-20T17:23:30  * catherine-w also doesn't like naming content types with names that reflect workflow
2008-10-20T17:24:00  <catherine-w> Another optoin
2008-10-20T17:24:27  <catherine-w> You could make another role besides Reader: IntranetEditor (or something)
2008-10-20T17:24:57  <catherine-w> Then you would make these people be the only people who could move stuff from pending into limitedAccess
2008-10-20T17:25:14  <catherine-w> And Editors would be the only people who could move stuff from pending into published
2008-10-20T17:25:34  * catherine-w likes this idea better than the content type one
2008-10-20T17:25:40  <joebigler> catherine-w:  That sounds good.
2008-10-20T17:26:03  <catherine-w> So in your intranet-y folder, you would give one lot of people the Reader role
2008-10-20T17:26:18  <catherine-w> (these Readers could view stuff in the limitedAccess state)
2008-10-20T17:26:40  <catherine-w> And another lot of people the intranetEditor role (or intranetReviewer, or whatever)
2008-10-20T17:26:55  <catherine-w> And these folks could put the content into the limitedAccess state
2008-10-20T17:26:58  <catherine-w> How does that sound
2008-10-20T17:27:06  <joebigler> catherine-w:  I think I like this idea best.
2008-10-20T17:27:10  <catherine-w> me too
2008-10-20T17:27:44  <catherine-w> Let me know how you get on!
2008-10-20T17:27:55  <catherine-w> I would test on a development copy of your site first, though
2008-10-20T17:28:28  <catherine-w> Because I know from experience that when you click that "update security settings" button, things can happen that you're not expecting
2008-10-20T17:28:36  <joebigler> catherine-w:  Will do, and yes will develop first.  Not doing that can be a disaster. :-)
2008-10-20T17:30:42  <joebigler> catherine-w:  Thanks for the help.  I am going to go work on this.
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2008-10-20T17:31:06  <catherine-w> No problemo. Good luck, joebigler
2008-10-20T17:34:23  * catherine-w realizes we don't really have a wiki page that deals with viewlet basics
2008-10-20T17:35:38  <catherine-w> Bless Anne Bowtell: http://plone.org/documentation/manual/theme-reference/buildingblocks/components/viewletsandportlets
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2008-10-20T18:24:11  <cewing> cguardia: greetings!
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2008-10-20T18:25:29  <cguardia> cewing: hi there!
2008-10-20T18:25:49  <cewing> cguardia: wanted to thank you for the loan of your two friends during the sprint
2008-10-20T18:25:58  <cewing> They were a big help!
2008-10-20T18:27:40  <ErikRose> +1!
2008-10-20T18:27:50  <ErikRose> + another 1!
2008-10-20T18:34:50  <cguardia> cewing: I just encouraged them to attend the conference and sprint and work with you, since they were already interested in the project...I hope we can get them to keep working on FSD from here
2008-10-20T18:34:59  <cewing> me too!
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2008-10-20T18:36:57  <cguardia> The people from UNAM came away really inspired from the conference, so I'll try to help direct that enthusiasm towards more work on FSD....I'll see if I can get them to use IRC, which they are not very familiar with
2008-10-20T18:52:08  <ErikRose> cguardia: They can always hit it through our page until they get sick of it and get real clients: http://weblion.psu.edu/documentation/chat
2008-10-20T18:52:34  <ErikRose> They should be on #plone anyway.
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