2007-02-25T00:01:46 *** kn6xq has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:05:21 *** pobrien has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:10:49 *** yello has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:11:35 anyone know Alvin from SF ? 2007-02-25T00:13:09 *** __jt__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:16:20 *** cablehead has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:17:18 *** cablehead has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:17:24 *** gldnspud has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:17:25 *** cablehead_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:18:57 *** __jt__ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:20:12 sb end 2007-02-25T00:20:19 *** sod has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:20:24 oops 2007-02-25T00:23:00 *** thatch has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:29:01 *** thatch_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T00:31:15 *** jerry_s has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:37:18 *** _matt_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:37:35 *** dstanek has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:53:04 *** thatch_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:53:59 *** kn6xq has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:54:10 *** thatch has quit IRC 2007-02-25T00:58:16 I won a Wii at the raffle, but I'm seriously thinking of selling it instead of taking it home. Would people be interested in buying it? Any offers? 2007-02-25T01:00:02 It's region locked to America and has a US-only power adapter. VAT and customs would cost be maybe 60-80 euros anyway, plus a power converter, plus a modchip. 2007-02-25T01:01:27 *** Tv has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:02:17 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T01:05:45 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T01:09:51 *** mgalloy has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:33:10 *** sanxiyn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:34:50 *** yello has quit IRC 2007-02-25T01:34:57 Midnight here. I had fun playing board games with others :) 2007-02-25T01:35:48 Brian Warner of Buildbot introduced Gipf to me and beated me convincingly (of course) two times. 2007-02-25T01:38:30 *** drewp|tx has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:40:40 yes boardgames were fun. yay germans won! 2007-02-25T01:40:58 *** yello has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:41:52 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:41:56 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T01:42:06 Before that, keysigning, and "IronPython folks" dinner. 2007-02-25T01:42:54 Today's summary: 2007-02-25T01:43:59 Keynote (wasn't good), SQLAlchemy (nothing I didn't know, but I met Michael Bayer), IronPython (control robot with Python!), Guido Keynote (great overview of Python 3000) 2007-02-25T01:44:39 Becoming an open source developer, and then the minimum open source developer must know about IP 2007-02-25T01:44:56 i liked those two oss ones 2007-02-25T01:44:56 I skipped the rest of talks and overheard discussions here and there. 2007-02-25T01:45:15 And lightning talks! Great. 2007-02-25T01:45:17 everyone was talking about the two ipython ones; i saw the second (and it was pretty neat) 2007-02-25T01:48:56 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T01:49:26 *** Six`oh`six has quit IRC 2007-02-25T01:50:28 *** cablehead_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T01:55:13 yeah i heard the second was neat. missed it. anyone know if the videos will be online later? 2007-02-25T01:55:26 i guess it depends on the speaker allowing it 2007-02-25T01:58:22 *** yello has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:03:23 *** jtauber has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:05:29 *** exogen has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:07:44 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T02:13:40 *** sanxiyn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:17:44 *** jtauber has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T02:19:54 *** jtauber has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:24:50 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:38:05 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T02:42:13 *** kn6xq has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T02:49:33 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T02:52:24 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T02:53:32 *** coderanger_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T02:53:33 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T03:02:10 *** drewp|tx has quit IRC 2007-02-25T03:25:04 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T03:34:34 *** philiKON_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T03:35:45 *** kn6xq has quit IRC 2007-02-25T03:44:27 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T03:48:09 *** philiKON has quit IRC 2007-02-25T03:56:49 *** tav has quit IRC 2007-02-25T04:27:31 *** avu has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T04:36:28 *** tav has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T04:40:02 *** coderanger_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T05:22:17 hello 2007-02-25T05:23:20 Paavo: jafo may be interested 2007-02-25T07:11:52 *** efm_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T07:12:36 *** efm has quit IRC 2007-02-25T07:29:56 *** efm_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T07:30:05 *** efm_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T07:30:18 hello 2007-02-25T07:32:23 *** _moshez has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T07:32:25 <_moshez> hellooooo 2007-02-25T07:55:49 morning 2007-02-25T07:57:18 *** bryan has quit IRC 2007-02-25T07:57:24 *** philiKON_ is now known as philiKON 2007-02-25T07:57:41 *** bryan_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T08:11:01 <_moshez> where are you 2007-02-25T08:11:05 *** CarlFK has quit IRC 2007-02-25T08:11:09 <_moshez> :( 2007-02-25T08:22:08 I woke up thinking about Twisted... not quite sure how I feel about that. :-P 2007-02-25T08:58:41 *** stati1 has left #pycon 2007-02-25T09:00:59 Elf needs coffee... badly 2007-02-25T09:01:23 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:01:38 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:02:04 *** dand has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:02:15 GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!!!!! 2007-02-25T09:08:21 *** _moshez has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:08:56 well, if anyone's interested in the wii, come talk to me - i'm giving the "Snakes on a Phone" talk in open space at 2.05 pm. getting an equivalent european wii would set me back 270 euros (350 dollars). 2007-02-25T09:10:34 *** ptme has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:12:53 *** drewp|tx has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:14:56 *** pfein_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:19:06 *** ptme has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:20:14 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:27:39 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:31:19 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:31:33 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:32:05 *** pfein_ is now known as pfein 2007-02-25T09:35:00 pfein: I apologize for not making it to the scaling bof last night... how did it go? 2007-02-25T09:37:11 *** wam_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:37:19 morning all 2007-02-25T09:40:15 morning wam_ 2007-02-25T09:40:23 creiht: no worries... it was just me, yello & 606 (i think). 2007-02-25T09:40:32 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:41:14 creiht: we just kinda kicked some stuff around... nothing too exciting. 2007-02-25T09:41:22 ahhh 2007-02-25T09:41:24 guess a 4th might helped after all. ;) 2007-02-25T09:41:27 hehe 2007-02-25T09:41:35 I had a bit of a dinner debachle 2007-02-25T09:42:08 ah. 2007-02-25T09:43:15 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:44:53 I'm not sure I'm up to the task of stuffing my laundry in my bag without more coffee. brb 2007-02-25T09:44:55 *** pfein is now known as pfein-away 2007-02-25T09:45:29 *** gldnspud has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:45:50 * mwh is still looking for some wonderful person with a nokia phone charger that works with 120v 2007-02-25T09:46:40 I have a hand crank with a variety of phone power adapters... takes a long time to put a good charge on it though 2007-02-25T09:47:12 mwh: I have a nokia charger for an N70 (the smaller connection) 2007-02-25T09:47:38 *** PluckyBlade has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:47:43 dcf: i wasn't aware there was more than one nokia charger connection 2007-02-25T09:47:45 *** PluckyBlade is now known as jng 2007-02-25T09:47:51 * dcf wonders what possessed nokia to change from the original connection 2007-02-25T09:48:05 dcf: are you in the ballroom? 2007-02-25T09:48:20 mwh: yeah 2007-02-25T09:48:46 first table in front of the left screeen, 2nd from the left 2007-02-25T09:49:28 i'll come and have a look in a sec 2007-02-25T09:49:55 *** dcf_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:50:31 *** stati1 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:51:21 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:51:25 *** dcf_ is now known as dcf 2007-02-25T09:51:57 *** sgk has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:52:37 grrr 2007-02-25T09:53:04 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:53:11 woooooooh!!! it's sunday morning and I'm thinking about code 2007-02-25T09:53:55 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:53:59 hey, who on here is a channel op (my client doesn't really tell me) 2007-02-25T09:54:22 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:54:26 wam_: My client says there are 0 ops 2007-02-25T09:54:29 oh, wait it does, looks like there is no op 2007-02-25T09:54:39 *** jkakar has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:55:53 the only person with chanserv access is itamar, apparently 2007-02-25T09:56:03 *** mgalloy has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:56:19 *** _matt_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T09:57:12 *** gldnspud has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:58:01 *** drewp|tx has quit IRC 2007-02-25T09:58:18 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T10:00:30 *** retracile has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:02:49 *** jgraves has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:03:10 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:04:14 *** gtalvola has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:05:10 *** __jt__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:05:15 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:06:09 *** obfuskate has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:06:30 <_matt_> yeah roml! 2007-02-25T10:07:03 yay feedback 2007-02-25T10:07:24 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:07:56 *** sjzabel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:11:02 Yay Sussman! 2007-02-25T10:11:14 (and probably Abelson, but I don't know him) 2007-02-25T10:11:37 smart sand 2007-02-25T10:11:42 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T10:11:59 Computers are fast idiots. 2007-02-25T10:12:16 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:13:10 *** tpollari has joined #Pycon 2007-02-25T10:13:11 This looks similar he gave to Oscon and was podcast on IT Conversations 2007-02-25T10:13:26 GOod to know 2007-02-25T10:15:06 *** dstanek has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:15:14 <_matt_> wam: yes 2007-02-25T10:15:35 <_matt_> it was a 3 part series 2007-02-25T10:15:56 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T10:16:56 yup... keynote one year that left as a cliff hanger and resumed the following year... I remember being amazed at his presentation/engaging style, even over just audio 2007-02-25T10:17:06 *** xanalogica has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:17:21 <_matt_> I was there for 2 and it was amazing 2007-02-25T10:17:22 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:21:12 *** dcf_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:23:23 *** edbrannin has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:24:14 r0ml proposed definition of computer programming: the art of communicating through symbols ideas about reality 2007-02-25T10:25:47 HAHAHAH 2007-02-25T10:26:13 *** _moshez has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:26:26 <_moshez> best keynote yet 2007-02-25T10:26:33 definitely 2007-02-25T10:26:37 r0ml was a keynote speaker at the php conference this year too... I've already heard the summarized version of his talk from some co-workers 2007-02-25T10:26:43 he's a great speaker. 2007-02-25T10:27:04 warm_ +1 2007-02-25T10:28:05 awesome. my mother taught me to read when I was three and it was the biggest gift I ever got 2007-02-25T10:28:20 <_moshez> yeah,. I was thought of helped to reading when I was like four 2007-02-25T10:28:22 <_moshez> it is awesome 2007-02-25T10:28:38 We needed to wait for the funding (for vowels). 2007-02-25T10:28:48 <_moshez> bah 2007-02-25T10:28:56 <_moshez> vowels are for people who don't know how to read 2007-02-25T10:29:06 <_moshez> I only learned to write with vowels when I was 10 2007-02-25T10:29:07 <_moshez> :) 2007-02-25T10:29:24 Hebrew? 2007-02-25T10:29:28 <_moshez> well 2007-02-25T10:29:36 <_moshez> I still don't know to write Hebrew with vowels 2007-02-25T10:29:40 vwlsrfrpplwhdntknwhwtrd 2007-02-25T10:29:41 <_moshez> but that's when I learned englihs 2007-02-25T10:29:44 <_matt_> vwls r fr ppl wh dnt knw hw t rd 2007-02-25T10:30:14 wheels and bars 2007-02-25T10:31:13 tubes 2007-02-25T10:31:18 <_moshez> the internet is like the codex...for porn! 2007-02-25T10:31:19 <_matt_> tubes and vowels 2007-02-25T10:31:37 <_moshez> mwh: are you tiny and here 2007-02-25T10:32:12 _moshez: yes, listening to you typing :) 2007-02-25T10:32:17 <_moshez> :( 2007-02-25T10:32:27 <_moshez> are you saying my typing is too loud :o9 2007-02-25T10:32:29 <_moshez> :( 2007-02-25T10:32:42 only a tiny bit 2007-02-25T10:32:48 monks +1 2007-02-25T10:32:49 i'm very close to you after all 2007-02-25T10:33:03 <_moshez> and then say came up with "MS Comic Serif" 2007-02-25T10:33:12 monks did have checksums 2007-02-25T10:33:13 hmm, irc is distracting, i'm going to try to listen 2007-02-25T10:33:16 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T10:33:30 csums so you couldn't monk-ey with the text 2007-02-25T10:33:50 <_moshez> grover2: I kill you now 2007-02-25T10:33:54 yeah, they would manually count the number of characters when copying a text to be sure there were no mistakes 2007-02-25T10:34:48 <_moshez> I want to be drunk on the wine of ancient alcohol 2007-02-25T10:35:17 <_matt_> yeah spaces! 2007-02-25T10:35:24 hehehe i knew he was gonna go there 2007-02-25T10:35:30 LOL 2007-02-25T10:35:31 <_moshez> so fucking awesome 2007-02-25T10:36:01 ego for my favorite laguage aside, I think there's a real striking point 2007-02-25T10:36:05 in that 2007-02-25T10:36:09 agreed 2007-02-25T10:36:17 <_moshez> but it's the same issue 2007-02-25T10:36:31 <_moshez> humans attach significance to empty spaces as structure creators 2007-02-25T10:36:36 i'll have to shove it in whitespace whiners faces in the future to see what their reaction is ;) 2007-02-25T10:36:39 definitely. the reason I started using python years ago was because so many people I worked with who did not know how to program could still read and understand the programs 2007-02-25T10:36:56 _moshez: exactly. 2007-02-25T10:37:02 what was the latin word he flashed? 2007-02-25T10:37:08 <_moshez> divisio? 2007-02-25T10:37:13 after that 2007-02-25T10:37:18 confirmatio? 2007-02-25T10:37:32 <_matt_> yes 2007-02-25T10:37:57 i.e. cliches 2007-02-25T10:38:10 well, allusions 2007-02-25T10:38:23 <_moshez> so basically "canon" is the std. lib of thought 2007-02-25T10:38:29 cool 2007-02-25T10:38:37 std lib of culture 2007-02-25T10:38:49 You can eat hawks. 2007-02-25T10:38:54 literally? hawk == bird, handsaw = cuts stuff? 2007-02-25T10:38:55 <_moshez> noooooo 2007-02-25T10:38:55 Handsaws, not so much. 2007-02-25T10:39:03 <_moshez> don't eat hawks 2007-02-25T10:39:10 darwin dickens 2007-02-25T10:40:16 don't eat handsaws 2007-02-25T10:40:47 this ties in so beautifully with the arguments made in Spinellis _Code Reading_ for having a requirement to study the programs of masters 2007-02-25T10:41:03 hello world 2007-02-25T10:41:10 HOw about a standard wiki syntax, while we're at it? ;-) 2007-02-25T10:41:10 noooo 2007-02-25T10:41:15 <_moshez> I vote for the Python interpreter 2007-02-25T10:41:16 nooooo 2007-02-25T10:41:18 goodbye cruel world 2007-02-25T10:41:19 hehe 2007-02-25T10:41:50 <_moshez> also Twisted 2007-02-25T10:41:52 none of us who have written these things want them read ;) 2007-02-25T10:41:53 <_moshez> it is a cool codebase 2007-02-25T10:41:59 I wonder how offended everybody would be if I went through and modernized the style of the Python stdlib. 2007-02-25T10:42:02 hahaha sendmail.cf 2007-02-25T10:42:19 * ErikRose wonders how much has tests. 2007-02-25T10:42:25 <_moshez> sendmail.cf is like the e.e.cummins stuff 2007-02-25T10:42:28 <_matt_> ER: I thought that was a task for 3k 2007-02-25T10:42:36 is sendmail conf turing complete? 2007-02-25T10:42:36 PEAK (lol) 2007-02-25T10:42:39 <_moshez> no 3k is for moving things around 2007-02-25T10:42:42 yes jgraves 2007-02-25T10:42:46 _matt_: Is it? Great! 2007-02-25T10:42:48 hmm... see, at it's core, programming isn't about describing the world or reality (or a reality, hypothetical, etc), like he seems to be arguing it is (i.e. that it's like writing....) instead, programming is about manipulating, about transforming, about doing. As such, does it make sense to talk about canonical works to be read, to be memorized? 2007-02-25T10:42:50 <_moshez> jgraves: you've not seen towers of hanoi/ 2007-02-25T10:43:27 <_moshez> and then you can memorize the assembly of elevator controllers 2007-02-25T10:43:34 <_moshez> and optimize your behaviour based on the algorithms 2007-02-25T10:43:36 moshez: i know towers of hanoi but in a sendmail conf context 2007-02-25T10:43:53 <_moshez> jgraves: yes. towers of hanoi in sendmail cf 2007-02-25T10:43:57 <_moshez> come on, it's a classic 2007-02-25T10:44:03 *** danmil has quit IRC 2007-02-25T10:44:09 "twisted boff" sounds bad 2007-02-25T10:44:10 sorry :-( 2007-02-25T10:44:48 <_moshez> somoene take a picture 2007-02-25T10:44:50 <_moshez> PLEASe 2007-02-25T10:44:52 now I see why moshez said this was the best keynote yet ;) 2007-02-25T10:44:55 <_moshez> I wantto show it to my mom 2007-02-25T10:44:57 <_moshez> pleaaaaaase 2007-02-25T10:45:01 hehehe 2007-02-25T10:45:03 <_moshez> pictures 2007-02-25T10:45:07 *** Catspaw has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:45:08 <_moshez> evil people :( 2007-02-25T10:45:12 heehee 2007-02-25T10:45:15 _moshez: done 2007-02-25T10:45:21 <_moshez> creiht: hugs 2007-02-25T10:45:22 nice 2007-02-25T10:45:26 English is more compact sometimes. 2007-02-25T10:46:25 <_moshez> ErikRose: he views it as a fixable bug in Python 2007-02-25T10:46:30 <_moshez> I gotta say, he has a point 2007-02-25T10:46:36 ZJangoGears to the rescue! 2007-02-25T10:46:40 because code is only tangentially descriptive. it's about doing. unless you take the whole OO thing too far 2007-02-25T10:47:03 Interesting 2007-02-25T10:47:04 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:47:08 *** romanoffi has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:47:10 <_moshez> man 2007-02-25T10:47:15 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:47:16 <_moshez> he's mean when he wants to be :) 2007-02-25T10:47:19 haha 2007-02-25T10:47:38 <_moshez> woo 2007-02-25T10:47:44 *** pfein-away is now known as pfein 2007-02-25T10:47:45 <_moshez> mwh: yay I am happy 2007-02-25T10:47:56 <_moshez> I am totally going to ask him for the slides 2007-02-25T10:47:59 <_moshez> to show my mom :) 2007-02-25T10:48:30 _moshez: got a photo of it if that helps 2007-02-25T10:48:33 <_matt_> Your mom is a geek! 2007-02-25T10:48:41 <_moshez> mpirnat: thanks 2007-02-25T10:48:43 <_moshez> link 2007-02-25T10:49:00 <_moshez> matt: no my mom likes to see her son's name in large letters in front of everyone 2007-02-25T10:49:01 <_moshez> :) 2007-02-25T10:49:09 still on camera, will offload later on 2007-02-25T10:49:09 <_moshez> she's kind of a geek, but not a cs geek 2007-02-25T10:49:18 <_moshez> she's like the best statistician ever 2007-02-25T10:49:19 <_matt_> ;) 2007-02-25T10:49:24 _moshez: What is your name? 2007-02-25T10:49:28 <_moshez> Moshe Zadka 2007-02-25T10:49:33 Nifty 2007-02-25T10:49:33 <_moshez> which is at least similar :) 2007-02-25T10:49:36 heh 2007-02-25T10:49:40 LOL 2007-02-25T10:49:48 haha 2007-02-25T10:49:49 I used to work with this crazy guy that wanted our entire application to be in one file 2007-02-25T10:49:54 <_moshez> but a file is more like a page 2007-02-25T10:50:02 <_moshez> a tarball is like a codex 2007-02-25T10:50:04 haha statil 2007-02-25T10:50:29 MS Access stores the whole program in one file. How literate! 2007-02-25T10:50:39 a file is like a chapter 2007-02-25T10:50:41 Lightning Talkのしばたさんがいませんか。 2007-02-25T10:50:49 <_moshez> no it's an artifact of the way version control works 2007-02-25T10:50:51 (and I wonder how bad it is to use unicode on IRC) 2007-02-25T10:50:59 <_moshez> and not many people debugged moby dick for hours 2007-02-25T10:51:01 or how editors work 2007-02-25T10:51:02 edbrannin: comes through fine 2007-02-25T10:51:08 <__jt__> dude, stop being so *linear* 2007-02-25T10:51:48 utf8 should be fine but will look like garbage on many clients 2007-02-25T10:51:57 (if Shibata-san is here, I want his Python-in-japan slides. If not, I suppose I'll have to email him.) 2007-02-25T10:52:35 would also be nice to get a version or screencast of zjangogears 2007-02-25T10:52:43 pretty cool to see that render ok 2007-02-25T10:52:56 dcf: indeed. 2007-02-25T10:53:14 When did IRC get Unicode? Cool. 2007-02-25T10:53:35 didnt render OK for me (using xchat) 2007-02-25T10:53:40 <__jt__> they're just bytes, blame your client 2007-02-25T10:53:43 <_moshez> roor it doesn't render for me, ircii 2007-02-25T10:53:57 was ok in xchat on the mac 2007-02-25T10:54:00 <_moshez> we call them "useless crap" 2007-02-25T10:54:38 ErikRose: it also *might* help that we're both using Colloquy ;) 2007-02-25T10:54:42 <_moshez> in soviet russia, phrases turn you around 2007-02-25T10:54:43 aye :-) 2007-02-25T10:54:46 renders fine on x-chat ubuntu 2007-02-25T10:54:47 hehe 2007-02-25T10:55:19 DAMN YOU COFFEE WORK HARDER! 2007-02-25T10:55:37 _moshez: http://flickr.com/photos/thethiers/402067989/ 2007-02-25T10:55:46 pfein: I don't get it, but LOL. 2007-02-25T10:56:36 <_moshez> he's tired 2007-02-25T10:57:19 the great programmers break the rules elegantly, the bad programmers break the rules without realizing it. nice 2007-02-25T10:57:37 "Why". "Why" is missing from programming languages. 2007-02-25T10:57:51 Fortunately, Ruby has _why ;) 2007-02-25T10:57:52 That's why I end up writing most of my English. 2007-02-25T10:57:55 *** dstanek has quit IRC 2007-02-25T10:58:22 *** pgries has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T10:58:39 I suspect even ScreechinglyObviousCode lacks why at the low levels. 2007-02-25T10:58:51 *** cbcunc has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:00:51 haha 2007-02-25T11:00:55 Illuminated code: http://redhanded.hobix.com/inspect/streamCopyYoutubeRevverEtc.html 2007-02-25T11:01:01 (sorta) 2007-02-25T11:02:42 yay mathmetica 2007-02-25T11:03:15 80 columns, dammit! 2007-02-25T11:03:18 *** danmil has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:05:13 <_moshez> I hate these graphs 2007-02-25T11:05:20 this all gets even more complicated when you consider sign languages which are parallel and cannot be expressed in a practical written form 2007-02-25T11:05:28 <_moshez> he should count how much money people who know english have 2007-02-25T11:06:06 clearly not gnu hello 2007-02-25T11:06:09 _moshez: Good point. 2007-02-25T11:06:35 Or how many of each are on the 'net. The universe of discourse is only networked people (used to be "literate people"). 2007-02-25T11:06:51 (using "universe of discourse" funny) 2007-02-25T11:07:47 Remember AppleScript dialects? 2007-02-25T11:08:04 ErikRose: argh 2007-02-25T11:08:13 Now there's a read-only language. 2007-02-25T11:08:41 dijkstra was wrong about many things 2007-02-25T11:08:54 <_moshez> like being dutch? 2007-02-25T11:09:00 woah woah woah -- you mean a human being was sometimes wrong? 2007-02-25T11:09:03 HEATHENS 2007-02-25T11:09:18 dijkstra wasn't human 2007-02-25T11:09:33 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:10:24 * ErikRose hates colons in Python. 2007-02-25T11:10:35 anyone got the audio of him uttering "colons"? 2007-02-25T11:11:06 It's like INTERCAL. 2007-02-25T11:11:26 unlambda 2007-02-25T11:11:39 ≤≥ 2007-02-25T11:11:55 * ErikRose hates music notation too. ;-) 2007-02-25T11:12:20 * _moshez hugs ASCII 2007-02-25T11:12:39 * ErikRose hates all those books called "John Grisham". 2007-02-25T11:12:47 * Catspaw giggles at ErikRose. 2007-02-25T11:12:51 *** karson has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:13:02 hehe eject button 2007-02-25T11:13:10 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:13:14 <_moshez> EJECT + EJECT 2007-02-25T11:14:07 Mideval music notation is interestingly expressive. 2007-02-25T11:14:19 <_moshez> although it's crap cause rexec doesn'treally work 2007-02-25T11:15:02 <_moshez> because REXEC DOESN'T FUCKING WORK :) 2007-02-25T11:15:11 Good music engraving is a lot easier to read than bad. 2007-02-25T11:15:16 <_moshez> brett canon is fixing it though 2007-02-25T11:15:29 brett to the rescue 2007-02-25T11:15:36 did you go to his talk? 2007-02-25T11:15:37 note to self: learn LilyPond. 2007-02-25T11:15:37 <_moshez> yays for brett 2007-02-25T11:15:41 <_moshez> mwh: I read the slides 2007-02-25T11:15:46 <_moshez> it's like going except faster 2007-02-25T11:16:08 now i want mathmatica for python 2007-02-25T11:16:12 do you think it'll actually work? 2007-02-25T11:16:22 <_moshez> mwh: it looks like it has a good chance 2007-02-25T11:16:24 <_moshez> ? 2007-02-25T11:16:28 stati1: me and armin and holger are going to do that "one day" 2007-02-25T11:16:46 or at least, a "terminal" that allows much more than text 2007-02-25T11:17:00 there is a folding editor that integrates all the code/docs, etc into a single view... 2007-02-25T11:17:06 leo ? 2007-02-25T11:17:10 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:17:10 <_moshez> "def under under init" 2007-02-25T11:17:13 yeah leo 2007-02-25T11:17:13 never really used it 2007-02-25T11:17:14 that's it... 2007-02-25T11:17:14 waka waka bang splat tick tick hash 2007-02-25T11:17:20 It's very interesting 2007-02-25T11:17:27 *** dydimustk has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:17:33 I just wish it didn't have to run under X11 on OS X 2007-02-25T11:17:39 Hehe, remember that discussion we had yesterday about how to say "__something__"? 2007-02-25T11:17:44 <_moshez> see 2007-02-25T11:17:44 indeed. this is why I always need IRC or chat when discussing code on the phone 2007-02-25T11:17:50 <_moshez> we're advancing in the right direction 2007-02-25T11:17:59 *** jgraves has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:18:49 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:19:12 <_moshez> also like 50 people collaborate on almost all projects 2007-02-25T11:19:19 i wish i'd gotten up early enough to have had breakfast 2007-02-25T11:19:19 <_moshez> hamlet was written by this one guy 2007-02-25T11:19:30 foodp 2007-02-25T11:19:34 <_moshez> mwh: american breakfast is too big :( 2007-02-25T11:20:06 <_moshez> who fucking cares about people in brazil :( 2007-02-25T11:20:10 _moshez: depends how edible lunch is 2007-02-25T11:20:10 <_moshez> they should learn english 2007-02-25T11:20:30 I never know if you're serious, _moshez :-) 2007-02-25T11:20:41 <_moshez> ErikRose: I'm not a native english speaker 2007-02-25T11:20:50 if an editor can syntax highlight, why cant it show keywords localized, while still storing the code in the canonical language 2007-02-25T11:20:51 <_moshez> ErikRose: I learned English, and then hacked on free software 2007-02-25T11:20:52 And I haven't even listened to you speak. :-) 2007-02-25T11:20:56 go teach english in brazil then 2007-02-25T11:20:58 <_moshez> brazilians can do similar things 2007-02-25T11:21:09 _moshez: you're not a kid though 2007-02-25T11:21:10 <_moshez> gps: why brazillians didn't come to .il to teach me english 2007-02-25T11:21:13 Okay, fair 'nuf. 2007-02-25T11:21:15 <_moshez> dcf: I was though 2007-02-25T11:21:23 we have ways to pronounce some code constructs that are different from the syntax we use to express those constructs in a programming language 2007-02-25T11:21:30 like constructors, objects, buffers, etc. 2007-02-25T11:21:35 right -- kids pick things up even quicker than we do... 2007-02-25T11:21:52 Kids have a lot of free time. = 2007-02-25T11:21:52 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:21:57 I doubt there's much more to it. 2007-02-25T11:22:12 Laundry and foraging for food take too much time. 2007-02-25T11:22:19 <_moshez> yay foraging for food 2007-02-25T11:22:28 * ErikRose eats hawks. 2007-02-25T11:22:40 not handsaws? 2007-02-25T11:22:44 <_moshez> nooooooo don't eat hawks 2007-02-25T11:22:45 * gps spits out handsaw 2007-02-25T11:22:47 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:22:50 hey wow, the schedule has what we're getting for lunch on it 2007-02-25T11:23:07 (pasta) 2007-02-25T11:23:07 Then what the hell ahappened? 2007-02-25T11:24:38 fortunately massive parallelism will make it much easier to write ambiguous programs 2007-02-25T11:25:11 *** mgalloy has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:25:14 *** __jt__ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:25:19 yay, treo next to the speakers 2007-02-25T11:25:24 <_moshez> mwh: did you confirm the story re: how we met 2007-02-25T11:25:40 facebook? 2007-02-25T11:25:45 <_moshez> yah 2007-02-25T11:26:11 screw time constraints 2007-02-25T11:26:12 ah right yes 2007-02-25T11:26:14 * mwh does so 2007-02-25T11:26:32 lol, mwh 2007-02-25T11:26:49 _moshez: your profile is boring 2007-02-25T11:26:55 <_moshez> mwh: I am sorry :( 2007-02-25T11:27:02 <_moshez> I am a boring person 2007-02-25T11:27:29 *** edbrannin has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:29:06 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:29:21 *** obfuskate has left #pycon 2007-02-25T11:29:37 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:29:40 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:29:42 yay ambiguity 2007-02-25T11:30:00 Was that an ambiguous question? 2007-02-25T11:30:17 yay for people not really knowing what question they are trying to ask? 2007-02-25T11:30:42 creiht, I'm not sure... ;-) 2007-02-25T11:30:45 statistics are not a way of determining what is best 2007-02-25T11:31:49 stati1: They're a way of convincing people what is best. ;) 2007-02-25T11:32:09 *** danmil has left #pycon 2007-02-25T11:33:00 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:33:00 I can allude to a great white whale without including the text of Moby Dick. 2007-02-25T11:33:54 how's the keynote? 2007-02-25T11:34:04 alect: fantastic 2007-02-25T11:34:05 alect: really good 2007-02-25T11:35:01 e.e. cummings is monospace fonts 2007-02-25T11:35:17 <_moshez> mwh: am I less boring now 2007-02-25T11:35:26 awesome, it sounded like it would be interesting 2007-02-25T11:35:35 *** dcf_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:35:37 tabs for indention makes it easy to use proportional width fonts 2007-02-25T11:35:49 wam_: +1 2007-02-25T11:35:51 tabs for indentation make baby jesus cry 2007-02-25T11:36:12 searching for python on facebook is futile 2007-02-25T11:36:17 I tried a proportional font for awhile, but it didn't work for me for some reason. 2007-02-25T11:36:54 parity or parody error :) 2007-02-25T11:37:15 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:37:21 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:37:42 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:37:51 very thought provoking keynote... 2007-02-25T11:37:56 *** xanalogica has left #pycon 2007-02-25T11:38:01 *** pgries has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:38:18 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:38:42 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:39:09 *** _moshez has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:43:07 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:46:50 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:46:52 *** Catspaw has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:47:06 ngi time 2007-02-25T11:47:52 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:47:54 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:51:36 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:51:58 hello from network testing 2007-02-25T11:52:18 *** sjzabel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:52:39 *** dstanek has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:52:48 *** sgk_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:52:53 Network Programming testing here... 2007-02-25T11:53:08 same 2007-02-25T11:53:26 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:54:05 *** sgk__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:54:20 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:54:26 *** jng has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:54:49 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:54:58 *** romanoffi has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:55:19 Tv: you here? 2007-02-25T11:55:52 *** sgk has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:56:01 *** d15c0 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:56:44 *** ecn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:56:45 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:57:00 *** dijix has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:57:10 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T11:57:54 *** jkakar has quit IRC 2007-02-25T11:58:53 hmm, is anyone flying out of here tomorrow afternoon? 2007-02-25T11:59:04 first thing tomorrow morning 2007-02-25T11:59:14 ive got a 725am flight tomorrow :( 2007-02-25T11:59:21 yikes 2007-02-25T11:59:25 gps: want to split a cab? 2007-02-25T11:59:32 don't think i want to share a cab with you :) 2007-02-25T11:59:36 hehe 2007-02-25T11:59:39 (i fly out at 1620) 2007-02-25T11:59:43 gps: i've a 7am flight 2007-02-25T12:00:18 i'm contemplating changing it and staying for a day of sprinting; check back tonight after sprint intros to see what i've decided 2007-02-25T12:00:27 ok 2007-02-25T12:00:30 i have a rental car so i could give a ride if i do leave then 2007-02-25T12:00:59 * ErikRose has a sudden mean Star Trek jones. 2007-02-25T12:01:05 *** _matt_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:01:39 *** pgries has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:02:01 I'm heading out at about 9:30am or so (to DFW), mwh, is that late enough? ;) 2007-02-25T12:02:29 not really :) 2007-02-25T12:03:23 I wonder how the NGI relates to mockets. 2007-02-25T12:03:34 compares, rather 2007-02-25T12:04:03 what is the ref to mockets? 2007-02-25T12:04:24 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:04:38 mock objects perhaps? there is a later talk on Mock Objects 2007-02-25T12:04:39 we did some network conn bypassing tests in mojonation but it was mostly unit tests nothing as nicely full network session simulating like these. nice. 2007-02-25T12:04:47 bazaar uses something similar, with various types of transports, the memory transport is primarily useful for fast testing 2007-02-25T12:04:51 I don't know mockets, but it sounds like a mock sockets lib. 2007-02-25T12:05:04 NGI looks like that sort of thing, too. 2007-02-25T12:05:25 but it seems his point is "use twisted instead of this" 2007-02-25T12:06:08 Since these I* objects are inheriting from Interface, does that mean it requires Zope infrastructure? 2007-02-25T12:06:19 heh 2007-02-25T12:06:31 wam_: Probably some of it 2007-02-25T12:06:34 zope.interfaces is a seperate installation 2007-02-25T12:06:38 it's self contained and very small 2007-02-25T12:06:48 yeah the use twisted instead of this point is being pushed hard :) 2007-02-25T12:06:50 I would expect zope.interfaces, which is required by twisted anyways :) 2007-02-25T12:06:50 it sounded like the I* was the application under test, not the testing framework 2007-02-25T12:07:07 I thought Twisted rolled its own interface lib. No more? 2007-02-25T12:07:26 its required zope.interface for as long as I've been using it... (few years) 2007-02-25T12:07:53 *** dowski has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:08:13 *** jerryseutter has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:08:34 interesting 2007-02-25T12:09:12 *** jacobkm has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:09:22 *** karson has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:09:54 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:09:58 *** PluckyBlade has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:10:05 ever since 2.0 we've used zope.interface 2007-02-25T12:10:07 *** PluckyBlade is now known as jng 2007-02-25T12:10:18 radix: where are you sitting? 2007-02-25T12:10:30 I'm in some education talk, which is boring 2007-02-25T12:10:31 radix: Ah, thanks! Hoorah for now only [2?] Python interface alternatives. 2007-02-25T12:10:49 (PyProtocols/peak.interface) 2007-02-25T12:10:55 (and zope.interface) 2007-02-25T12:11:01 how do I remove an egg with easy_install? 2007-02-25T12:11:02 yes 2007-02-25T12:11:15 grover2: you can't, easy install just installs ;) 2007-02-25T12:11:20 radix: teaching 2 month old kids how to read? 2007-02-25T12:11:31 benbangert: uhh....crap 2007-02-25T12:11:32 radix: come to the NGI talk, he says "I should have used twisted instead" 2007-02-25T12:11:35 grover2: Delete it :) 2007-02-25T12:11:37 If somebody finds a 2-month-old-speaking link, please share. 2007-02-25T12:11:39 heh 2007-02-25T12:11:51 teach babies sign language 2007-02-25T12:11:57 ugh eggs 2007-02-25T12:11:57 Oh, that? Rats. 2007-02-25T12:12:01 it was in the _Meet the Fockkers_ movie 2007-02-25T12:12:07 efm_: yeah, that works quite well 2007-02-25T12:12:16 ok brt 2007-02-25T12:12:25 efm_: had some friends do it. 2007-02-25T12:12:25 *** sgk_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:12:36 *** d15c0 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:14:00 it sounds like the sort of thing my cat can do.. pointing out "I need fresh water" with gestures. 2007-02-25T12:14:29 often no more complicated than sitting staring at the important object 2007-02-25T12:14:44 well, having a sign for something like "all done" sure is better than having food thrown on the floor 2007-02-25T12:14:46 There's a thought bubble above your cat saying "Dammit." 2007-02-25T12:14:53 often 2007-02-25T12:15:01 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:15:17 *** pgries has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:15:40 that bubble is constant 2007-02-25T12:15:40 "I developed NGI under the mistaken impression that Twisted wouldn't support this style of programming. :-( 2007-02-25T12:15:42 " 2007-02-25T12:15:58 There is a program/protocol called PECS (Picture Exchange Communication System) that we introduced to our kids... 2007-02-25T12:16:04 is it just me, or is "twisted not clear"? 2007-02-25T12:16:26 for totally different reason (autism related non-verbal kids) 2007-02-25T12:16:51 "Continued work on NGI doesn't make sense, except perhaps as a simple facade on Twisted" 2007-02-25T12:17:04 So where would one look in Twisted for doing this type of testing? 2007-02-25T12:18:01 *** Tv has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:18:06 *** alect is now known as athomas 2007-02-25T12:18:07 with what Jim Fulton comes up with when he works on it? 2007-02-25T12:18:11 *** athomas is now known as alect 2007-02-25T12:18:48 not so much 2007-02-25T12:18:49 more like 2007-02-25T12:19:04 What's the best practice for testing network protocols with twisted 2007-02-25T12:19:11 In a similar manner 2007-02-25T12:19:13 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:19:29 today 2007-02-25T12:19:34 I apologize for still beeing a bit of a twisted newb :) 2007-02-25T12:19:36 that sounds like a great question to ask at the microphone, creiht 2007-02-25T12:20:24 AMP from the twisted framework, asynchronous messaging protocol from Twisted 2007-02-25T12:20:48 ahh here we go 2007-02-25T12:20:54 *** dowski has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:20:56 Twisted Testing Tool documentation still under development. 2007-02-25T12:21:00 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:21:16 Trial 2007-02-25T12:21:19 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:21:27 Trial = twisted testing tool 2007-02-25T12:21:51 Somebody needs to write something called Twisted Sister so they can get embroiled in a big legal mess. 2007-02-25T12:22:03 hehe 2007-02-25T12:22:09 *** sgeigerbot has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:22:18 And I'll watch and eat popcorn. 2007-02-25T12:22:28 and hawks. 2007-02-25T12:22:29 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:22:31 yes, but what would it do? 2007-02-25T12:22:33 http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2002-July/001280.html 2007-02-25T12:22:46 gps: nice 2007-02-25T12:22:55 *** ecn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:23:10 i figured you couldn't be the first to think of that name ;) 2007-02-25T12:23:17 At least the 3rd :-) 2007-02-25T12:23:33 I like twisted.pair 2007-02-25T12:23:54 twesting 2007-02-25T12:23:54 A guy in the telecom dept was going to start a 2-man band called that. 2007-02-25T12:24:13 "And now, The Twisted Pair!" 2007-02-25T12:24:56 *** Tv has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:25:01 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:25:07 *** danmil has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:25:13 updated presos notes at http://wamber.net/static/PyCon-2007/ now including the keynote and testable network programming 2007-02-25T12:25:17 http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedTrial 2007-02-25T12:25:40 *** jacobkm has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:25:43 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:26:18 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:27:18 Does anyone here know what twisted.sister does? 2007-02-25T12:27:26 *** _matt_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:27:32 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:27:42 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:27:58 *** sgk has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:28:28 Plays really bad 80's music? 2007-02-25T12:28:33 Who is responsible for the cool code on this page? I would like to borrow it. http://us.pycon.org/apps07/schedule/ 2007-02-25T12:29:04 sgeigerbot: twisted.sister should be a generator... when called too many times, it should raise an exception, claiming that it's "not going to take it anymore" 2007-02-25T12:29:04 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:29:13 hahaha 2007-02-25T12:29:29 *** romanoffi has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:30:01 crunchy frog is cool 2007-02-25T12:30:06 ya 2007-02-25T12:30:10 sgeigerbot: Doug Napoleone, I belive 2007-02-25T12:30:27 alect: I love the logo 2007-02-25T12:30:52 yeah :) 2007-02-25T12:31:19 *** cbcunc has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:31:30 Is the python logo (yellow and blue snakes) copy-protected? or copy-encouraged? 2007-02-25T12:31:33 Nodboy cares about the topic. *sniff* 2007-02-25T12:31:35 * ErikRose updates it. 2007-02-25T12:31:40 *** ErikRose changes topic to "Today's logs: http://weblion.psu.edu/pyconlogs/2007/02/25.txt Some notes: https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/PyCon" 2007-02-25T12:31:45 trademark; not copyright 2007-02-25T12:32:19 *** ecn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:32:53 ErikRose: they made an announcement that the northern part of the Americas are having bad weather and those flying out should check for flight cancelations before going to the airport. 2007-02-25T12:33:13 ErikRose: you may want to add something to that effect in the topic 2007-02-25T12:33:30 *** pgries has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:33:32 retracile: You can do it. Just type /topic blahblah. 2007-02-25T12:34:20 *** cbcunc has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:34:53 I'd like a small international oval bumper sticker with the python logo... 2007-02-25T12:35:03 What's with those things, anyway? 2007-02-25T12:35:09 I liked the one with the whole alphabet in it. 2007-02-25T12:35:22 Did they used to be some kind of official railroad thing or something? 2007-02-25T12:35:22 it's trendy 2007-02-25T12:35:37 European signage? 2007-02-25T12:35:54 Was it? 2007-02-25T12:36:03 I don't know, just speculating 2007-02-25T12:36:30 *** __jt___ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:37:06 *** retracile changes topic to ""Bad weather in N.America; check your flight! Today's logs: http://weblion.psu.edu/pyconlogs/2007/02/25.txt Some notes: https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/PyCon"" 2007-02-25T12:37:06 started as snobby european signage, turned into snobby others putting their own thing in it and has since gone onto great spoofs of snobbyness like the whole alphabet :) 2007-02-25T12:37:27 I can't see the fixture forest for the trees 2007-02-25T12:38:00 ErikRose: http://www.stickercafe.com/ovalstickerhistory.htm 2007-02-25T12:38:27 where are bad drawings of pipes when you need them! 2007-02-25T12:38:36 Hooray! Thanks, dijix ! 2007-02-25T12:38:46 I had trouble googling that, for some reason. 2007-02-25T12:38:47 tubes? 2007-02-25T12:38:54 "9 inches wide and nearly 6 inches tall! Almost the same size as a door on a Yugo!" 2007-02-25T12:39:09 that's a small Yugo 2007-02-25T12:39:20 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:39:21 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T12:39:22 so these things are eurotrash? :) 2007-02-25T12:39:28 *** four0four has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:40:05 initially used to help tell the country origins of cars driving around europe 2007-02-25T12:40:10 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:40:40 so this all a mechanism for loading data? where's the testing? 2007-02-25T12:40:43 *** sgk__ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:40:51 that's where I saw them actually being used for their intended purpose (e.g. D oval on cars from Germany). Left on cars brought back from europe, then spoofed. 2007-02-25T12:41:10 pfein: the data are the tests. He's not really describing it well. 2007-02-25T12:41:13 so the fixture just lets you load the data and exercise the program 2007-02-25T12:41:53 looks like the fixture is to help provide different sets of data for testing 2007-02-25T12:41:58 (DFW) 2007-02-25T12:42:01 *** dugan has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:42:06 yuck, lots of flights are delayed 2007-02-25T12:42:11 so you write your data set out in python? 2007-02-25T12:42:17 this talk also assumes you understand sqlalchemy 2007-02-25T12:42:25 it looks like it's assuming the tests are stored in a db 2007-02-25T12:42:36 efm_: It'd be really nice if that was mentioned on the schedule.. ;( 2007-02-25T12:42:37 yeah i noticed. not what i expected 2007-02-25T12:42:47 +1 2007-02-25T12:42:56 though i didn't care about the other two talks in this time slot so... 2007-02-25T12:43:28 I wouldn't have minded learning more about XRC 2007-02-25T12:43:56 what is src 2007-02-25T12:43:57 xrc 2007-02-25T12:44:20 wxwindows annoys me 2007-02-25T12:44:26 GUI description language that wx can parse 2007-02-25T12:44:33 which one was the ETL talk yesterday? 2007-02-25T12:44:38 (e.g. it's the wx equivalent to glade) 2007-02-25T12:44:49 ETL was mentioned on the test panel 2007-02-25T12:44:51 efm_: What's the point? I could just save a database dump or somesuch. 2007-02-25T12:45:03 yeah, that's what I'm thing pfein. 2007-02-25T12:45:09 i see 2007-02-25T12:45:16 Hell, I don't even *have* a database 2007-02-25T12:45:30 I've used fit fixtures.. they allow you to load tests from a text file.. 2007-02-25T12:45:32 pyfit 2007-02-25T12:45:33 i forgot to ask the dabo guy if the GUI designer could change existing ones 2007-02-25T12:45:36 <_matt_> efm: the star schema talk yesterday 2007-02-25T12:45:37 anyone in the xrc talk? 2007-02-25T12:45:38 which i doubt 2007-02-25T12:45:52 I'm not sure what this has to do with anything 2007-02-25T12:46:01 thanks _matt_ 2007-02-25T12:46:21 why define a fixture when you could define a dataobject using the model and populate the dataasew 2007-02-25T12:46:36 soo hungry 2007-02-25T12:46:39 python vim time 2007-02-25T12:46:42 gps: I am 2007-02-25T12:46:42 Fixture refuge BoF in back? 2007-02-25T12:46:47 er, refugee 2007-02-25T12:47:08 since we have 20 min left in this slot 2007-02-25T12:47:42 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:49:26 *** jwhitlark has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:49:36 xrc talk is running over time 2007-02-25T12:49:53 hmm or maybe my clock is off 2007-02-25T12:50:00 was gonna hit Mock object talk, thinking about doing vi instead 2007-02-25T12:50:09 *** Six`oh`six has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:50:56 in xrc now. how is creating a tree and having to "run" it better than a gui dialog editor? 2007-02-25T12:51:15 wam_: I'm gonna keep going to testing talks until I see the light... or until I just say screw it & deploy trunk/ ;) 2007-02-25T12:51:26 fixtures is teh good tool! 2007-02-25T12:51:57 haha pfein 2007-02-25T12:51:57 pretty sure we're gonna start using it as soon as we get back to work 2007-02-25T12:52:20 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:52:44 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:53:15 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:53:34 TN00014 2007-02-25T12:53:42 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:53:57 Enthought sure has a lot of tools 2007-02-25T12:54:05 I wish I could figure them out, though 2007-02-25T12:54:21 Bent Tree 3 2007-02-25T12:54:32 *** dcf_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:55:02 dand What are they talking about in Bent Tree 3? 2007-02-25T12:55:25 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:55:46 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T12:56:10 pyvim 2007-02-25T12:56:22 pyvim????? 2007-02-25T12:58:11 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:59:06 *** sgk_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T12:59:58 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:00:05 someone should do a vim elisp lightning talk 2007-02-25T13:00:08 is the python vim stuff cool? 2007-02-25T13:00:17 bad comedy so far 2007-02-25T13:00:20 Enthought has been having a BOF in Bent Tree 3 2007-02-25T13:00:28 They went over Chaco, a plotting tool 2007-02-25T13:00:30 gps: just getting going 2007-02-25T13:00:45 *** romanoffi has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:00:47 it has turtle graphics and logo, along with lots of plotting functions (zoom, etc) 2007-02-25T13:00:50 is the enthought thing covering ipython? 2007-02-25T13:00:51 yep, sean should stick to networks and skip the comedy 2007-02-25T13:00:58 They use it. 2007-02-25T13:01:14 *** romanoffi has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:01:16 They are currently showing some apps made in their Envisage tool 2007-02-25T13:01:25 jng: there was ipython follow-on BoF last nite (distrib. computing). 2007-02-25T13:01:28 .. was hoping to chat with the guy that did the parallel stuff 2007-02-25T13:01:38 tks pfein.. 2007-02-25T13:01:39 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:01:39 Looks like you add traits to your clases and you can manipulate them in this graphical environment 2007-02-25T13:02:08 Not much docs on the architecture, or many reference apps yet though 2007-02-25T13:02:43 *** jbelli1 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:02:51 * dugan is not in the python vim thing and there are no slides. Any library names or links? 2007-02-25T13:03:06 jng: if you want to kick it around, it's been on my mind. I can probably point him out to you... 2007-02-25T13:03:06 tummy.com free stuff has links 2007-02-25T13:03:13 dugan: tummy.com, free stuff, 2007-02-25T13:03:18 thx 2007-02-25T13:03:18 *** jacobkm has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:03:23 pfein: tks that would be handy.. 2007-02-25T13:03:25 http://www.tummy.com/Community/Presentations/vimpython-20070225/vim.html 2007-02-25T13:03:40 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:03:43 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:04:00 *** pgries has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:04:46 *** T1 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:04:53 *** sgk_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:07:08 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:07:55 <_matt_> any mockers know what self.replay() does? 2007-02-25T13:08:08 * pfein wonders the same thing 2007-02-25T13:08:26 *** sgeigerbot has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:08:31 pymock seems like a simple concept, but it's hard to follow this talk 2007-02-25T13:08:40 I think it puts mock into replay mode so that it starts checking for calls 2007-02-25T13:08:41 It runs the command and makes sure the mock calls were made I think 2007-02-25T13:08:56 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:09:14 nooo!! no sleep() in tests! 2007-02-25T13:09:19 *** sean__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:09:26 dugan: I thought you stuck mock()'s as attributes. 2007-02-25T13:09:40 Or, yeah, starts checking that the calls made above the replay are called again after the replay() called 2007-02-25T13:09:48 *** pobrien has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:10:05 * dugan thinks that replay is a bit convoluted tho 2007-02-25T13:10:18 ah, so the top half of the test is basically a script of what should happen, and replay() makes it go? 2007-02-25T13:10:18 huh? but the functions called above aren't explicitly called again... 2007-02-25T13:10:20 <_matt_> now I'm more confused about replay... 2007-02-25T13:10:28 <_matt_> maybe pymock has good docs.... 2007-02-25T13:10:36 the functions get called by what you're testing 2007-02-25T13:10:42 or rather they should 2007-02-25T13:10:55 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:10:58 Six`oh`six: maybe? 2007-02-25T13:11:12 oh, wait, it's app.run() which is going to make those calls 2007-02-25T13:11:13 Six`oh`six: yeah, that's how it works 2007-02-25T13:11:17 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:11:40 right 2007-02-25T13:11:43 *** Tv has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:11:54 here's the doc string for my home grown mock stuff: http://www.pastebin.ca/371837 2007-02-25T13:12:01 so this test is saying "someone should call is_running and you return true, then they call it again and you return false" 2007-02-25T13:13:14 <_matt_> where does he change state from "record" mode to "run" mode? 2007-02-25T13:13:20 by calling replace() 2007-02-25T13:13:21 dugan: i like it. i may build something like it :) 2007-02-25T13:13:23 replay() 2007-02-25T13:13:45 Six`oh`six: I'll publish the module there then 2007-02-25T13:13:51 cool 2007-02-25T13:14:08 heh 2007-02-25T13:14:11 decorator overload! 2007-02-25T13:14:26 were decorators in 2.4 or 2.5? 2007-02-25T13:14:32 4 2007-02-25T13:14:33 2.4 2007-02-25T13:14:35 k 2007-02-25T13:14:35 hmm, dugan I almost get it... 2007-02-25T13:14:49 shamefully our app is still stuck on python 2.2 2007-02-25T13:14:58 tsk tsk 2007-02-25T13:15:11 it's complicated 2007-02-25T13:15:19 pfein: everything returns a mock object by default, all attributes are mock objects, all functions are mock objects, every mock object records what from it was accessed or how it was called 2007-02-25T13:15:55 vim python talk is good for new ideas of what madness to put in my ancient vimrc 2007-02-25T13:16:21 *** ptme has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:16:56 aww the irc channel on the projector isn't on freenode 2007-02-25T13:17:07 gadz, I'm tired 2007-02-25T13:17:10 Six`oh`six: http://www.pastebin.ca/371847 2007-02-25T13:17:16 dugan: so the idea behind mocking is you either prespecify or record what happens to your state/func calls & then assert on it? 2007-02-25T13:17:27 right. 2007-02-25T13:17:39 *** __jt___ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:17:54 * pfein wishes someone would have said that 30 minutes ago. 2007-02-25T13:18:03 dugan: thanks 2007-02-25T13:18:15 *** T1 is now known as Tv 2007-02-25T13:18:21 that's, like, public domain? 2007-02-25T13:18:26 *** sgk has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:18:30 Six`oh`six: my name's David Christian, email dbc at rpath.com, send me yours and I'll let you know when I publish it 2007-02-25T13:18:52 okay, sounds good 2007-02-25T13:19:01 but feel free to just take that and run with it if you like 2007-02-25T13:19:24 i'll send you an email 2007-02-25T13:19:26 python block motion totally makes this talk worthwhile for me 2007-02-25T13:19:27 *** four0four has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:19:32 within vim that is 2007-02-25T13:20:00 wam_: yeah, handy 2007-02-25T13:20:03 wam_: ditto 2007-02-25T13:20:26 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:20:41 Six`oh`six: yeah 2007-02-25T13:20:50 sorry, yeah, public domain 2007-02-25T13:20:56 awesome 2007-02-25T13:21:08 *** markluffel has left #pycon 2007-02-25T13:21:19 * dugan will have to pick a license and whatnot 2007-02-25T13:21:44 but it will be something friendly and open 2007-02-25T13:22:09 not sure if when he asks for things whether he's *really* asking for it or not... 2007-02-25T13:22:27 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:22:30 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:22:30 yeah 2007-02-25T13:22:38 hmmm 2007-02-25T13:22:42 assisitant(!) writing them down? this is only a short talk. 2007-02-25T13:22:53 import vim doesnt work , wonder where the package is 2007-02-25T13:23:33 Six`oh`six, toscawidgets sounds moderately useful. It's what Vu was talking about. 2007-02-25T13:23:35 its only available when in the vim embedded python 2007-02-25T13:23:42 dugan: well... like "viral" GPL open? cuz our codebase is closed, unfortunately. 2007-02-25T13:23:58 no 2007-02-25T13:24:03 ours is as well 2007-02-25T13:24:08 sean__: only works within the vimrc? 2007-02-25T13:24:10 sean__: help python describes what is in the vim python module, it's pretty small 2007-02-25T13:24:11 ie: its not a stand alone module 2007-02-25T13:24:14 jerryseutter: probably better than the pymock talk, though the irc chat was useful :) 2007-02-25T13:24:22 I think it has to be imported from within a macro of vim 2007-02-25T13:24:43 e.g. within the context of vim macro, you have that module available to import 2007-02-25T13:24:55 dugan: email sent 2007-02-25T13:25:05 gonna go get food! ttyl 2007-02-25T13:25:13 great 2007-02-25T13:25:14 *** Six`oh`six has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:25:40 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:25:46 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:26:33 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:27:06 *** danmil has left #pycon 2007-02-25T13:27:28 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:27:46 *** pobrien has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:28:53 STACKLESS! 2007-02-25T13:29:26 *** dand has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:29:52 *** dcf_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:31:24 gps, cheers 2007-02-25T13:33:20 *** efm_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:36:38 *** jng has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:36:56 *** pobrien has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:37:10 *** jng has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:39:39 *** mgalloy_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:40:25 Ahhh.... foooooood. 2007-02-25T13:40:51 *** cbcunc has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:42:01 *** jacobkm has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:42:04 *** sgeigerbot has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:42:59 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:45:14 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:47:58 *** jwhitlark has left #pycon 2007-02-25T13:48:08 *** sean__ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:49:19 *** edbrannin has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:49:30 *** jbelli1 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:53:06 *** cablehead has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:53:40 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:55:26 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:55:54 *** _matt_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:56:23 *** cbcunc has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:58:01 *** _matt_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T13:58:28 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:59:16 *** shawn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T13:59:50 *** stati1 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:01:26 *** clajo04 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:02:16 *** ptme has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:02:42 *** mgalloy_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:05:14 *** coderanger_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:05:28 *** jng has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:06:59 *** rmunn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:09:22 *** mgalloy has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:10:00 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:10:55 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:10:57 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T14:11:38 *** thatch has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:13:29 * dugan thinks python-mock looks much easier to use than pymock. 2007-02-25T14:13:49 is there a pysmock 2007-02-25T14:14:05 not yet 2007-02-25T14:14:12 for painting 2007-02-25T14:17:30 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:18:11 Anyone know where Andrew Kuchling is right now? 2007-02-25T14:18:15 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:21:14 *** four0four has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:21:20 rmunn: I don't see Andrew in the F-J conf room 2007-02-25T14:21:47 Thanks. 2007-02-25T14:22:15 He doesn't seem to be in A-E either, I'm going to pack up and look in the hallway. 2007-02-25T14:22:20 *** rmunn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:22:42 anyone in the vim talk get down the sntax to remap the visual indication of whitespace into visable characters (e.g. tab:'>',...) 2007-02-25T14:23:00 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:23:24 wam_: listchars 2007-02-25T14:23:32 thanks ari 2007-02-25T14:24:07 :set lcs=tab:>-,trail:- i think 2007-02-25T14:24:35 and set list 2007-02-25T14:25:05 yeah, looks about right 2007-02-25T14:25:15 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:25:29 *** jacobkm has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:26:03 *** ecn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:26:24 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:26:43 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:26:46 wam_: my notes have: set listchars=tab:>~,trail:- 2007-02-25T14:27:08 That ~ may have been a - 2007-02-25T14:28:04 thanks 2007-02-25T14:28:32 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:29:25 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:30:21 *** nerd_alert_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:30:32 this guy is running windows to make a presentation? 2007-02-25T14:31:12 *** rmunn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:31:22 Why oh why? 2007-02-25T14:31:25 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:31:25 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:31:57 *** nerd_alert_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:31:59 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:32:35 *** Six`oh`six has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:33:06 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:33:48 ok, is it really too much to ask to expect presenters to know how to use their choosen presentation software? Or is something else happening do you think? 2007-02-25T14:33:49 uh oh 2007-02-25T14:33:53 wow 2007-02-25T14:34:03 I thinik his box crashed, and this is his backup plan. 2007-02-25T14:34:05 why is he using a mac 2007-02-25T14:35:17 ok, now I have a bit of guilt for being so critical... 2007-02-25T14:35:23 we're terrible people 2007-02-25T14:35:34 Hey, I eat hawks. 2007-02-25T14:36:11 tasty, and nutritious 2007-02-25T14:36:19 *** efm has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:37:13 efm is here to answer all our vim questions! 2007-02-25T14:37:20 heh! 2007-02-25T14:37:25 vim is great 2007-02-25T14:37:47 handsaws have more iron 2007-02-25T14:38:19 it's certainly my fav... am excited to work on a macro/extension (written in python) for making docutils editing a lot easier. 2007-02-25T14:38:46 yeah that was a good idea 2007-02-25T14:38:54 are you going to sprint on that wam_? 2007-02-25T14:39:06 now i want to write scripts to automatically determine indentation of all my languages 2007-02-25T14:39:20 last year's emacs docutils lightening talk was a 'wow I wish I could do that with vi' moment... now I will... 2007-02-25T14:39:26 *** DreadPirateBob has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:39:28 it should be easy to use the code included with the presentation to do that ari 2007-02-25T14:39:33 not sticking around for the sprints, but will likely work on it at home 2007-02-25T14:39:43 *** danmil has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:39:52 wam_ if you do it, please let us know, and we'll add it to the presentaion 2007-02-25T14:40:18 will do 2007-02-25T14:40:28 thx 2007-02-25T14:40:46 *** greenfngrs has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:42:00 *** primco- has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:43:04 *** sgeigerbot2 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:43:12 *** newpers has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:43:28 I would dearly love to map my MacBOok's Fn key to Control. Any love out there? 2007-02-25T14:43:31 *** dougn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:43:39 The Keyboard control panel gives me everything but. 2007-02-25T14:43:52 * ErikRose wonders if uControl does that and is stable on 10.4 on Intel yet. 2007-02-25T14:44:08 *** danmil has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:44:08 Check DoubleCommand 2007-02-25T14:44:11 ErikRose: not at *all* stable IME 2007-02-25T14:44:24 huh. I just use my capslock as control. 2007-02-25T14:44:27 jacobkm: Rats. 2007-02-25T14:44:39 Gah. I want to go to two talks at once next. Next year we need to have cam feeds! 2007-02-25T14:44:39 * ErikRose checks DoubleCommand. Thanks. 2007-02-25T14:44:47 control, not escape? 2007-02-25T14:45:02 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:45:03 *** dand has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:47:46 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:48:46 so is RPython another implementation of python, or a tool/compiler for stackless into python... 2007-02-25T14:48:55 ? 2007-02-25T14:48:56 am I the only one who's noticing that the testers in that company are all women?> 2007-02-25T14:49:07 the testing talk going on right now 2007-02-25T14:49:11 what company? Are they hiring? :) 2007-02-25T14:49:24 down boy. :-) 2007-02-25T14:49:33 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:49:36 heheh 2007-02-25T14:49:41 wam_: i think you're sitting next to me 2007-02-25T14:49:51 Test automation for a complex system 2007-02-25T14:49:56 you're in blue shirt? 2007-02-25T14:50:00 yes 2007-02-25T14:50:04 hi ari 2007-02-25T14:50:05 heh 2007-02-25T14:50:06 the only one in the entire conference 2007-02-25T14:50:23 fitnesse is pretty cool 2007-02-25T14:50:39 I meant to be in that one.. the test automation... 2007-02-25T14:51:12 but I'm enjoying the Stackless one 2007-02-25T14:51:21 dijix: i'm falling asleep 2007-02-25T14:51:21 it's much better than the fixture one 2 ago 2007-02-25T14:52:06 Brrrr!!! 2007-02-25T14:52:10 in stackless 2007-02-25T14:52:19 ari: I usually do when the stackless conversation gets over my head, but I'm enjoying a good discussion of how the different constructs are built up from the basic coroutines.. how tasklets, greenlets, etc relate to one another.. 2007-02-25T14:52:33 oh yikes, this is only a 30 minute talk 2007-02-25T14:53:05 ARINC 2007-02-25T14:53:13 that's the company name, dijix 2007-02-25T14:53:14 damn... the fixture one turned me off of the testing track so figured I'd hit stackles... looks like a miscalculation 2007-02-25T14:53:15 * mwh remembers when christian broke his head with the point about costates 2007-02-25T14:53:39 could a co-state be considered like a namespace? 2007-02-25T14:54:04 sort of, but not really 2007-02-25T14:54:13 i like the name 'pivot' 2007-02-25T14:55:06 'pivot' is a good name for it... perhaps pyvot for the PY factor 2007-02-25T14:55:14 they need to increase the font size in testing 2007-02-25T14:55:30 I don't know if that's an option in selenium 2007-02-25T14:55:33 dugan: didn't bring your telescope? 2007-02-25T14:55:42 You really want to read that??? 2007-02-25T14:55:46 yeah its tiny. the slides on the webpage are not at all whats on the screen now 2007-02-25T14:55:49 clajo04: I don't know! 2007-02-25T14:56:02 it's names separated by | 2007-02-25T14:56:05 i came in late, maybe they were the first half 2007-02-25T14:56:07 the line looks like 2007-02-25T14:56:12 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:56:13 |variable|variable|value| 2007-02-25T14:56:24 that's what the selenium thing looked like 2007-02-25T14:56:32 gps: yeah, they're interspersing demos between chunks of slides 2007-02-25T14:56:48 off to testing track again 2007-02-25T14:56:52 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:56:53 *** Six`oh`six has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:57:01 i hate being too tired to concentrate properly 2007-02-25T14:57:16 *** gjh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:57:18 *** mgalloy has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:57:24 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:57:39 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:57:54 *** gjh has left #pycon 2007-02-25T14:58:01 *** dand has left #pycon 2007-02-25T14:58:44 so fitnesse is worth checking out? 2007-02-25T14:58:56 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T14:59:08 *** greenfngrs has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:59:10 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T14:59:20 * dugan is trying to figure out what the takeaway message is here 2007-02-25T14:59:24 yes, the book on fit testing is very good as well, plus there are some good talks on google video 2007-02-25T14:59:36 I'm heading back to testing 2007-02-25T14:59:53 test everything, and make it easy to know what you've tested, and to test repeatedly 2007-02-25T15:00:09 Isn't there a lot of overlap between fit and selenium? 2007-02-25T15:00:16 no, 2007-02-25T15:00:17 Im back in testing... second table back from the left... 3rd guy from the right. 2007-02-25T15:00:29 selenium is the gui tester, fit is more general 2007-02-25T15:00:36 ahh 2007-02-25T15:00:43 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:00:49 I don't know what twill is 2007-02-25T15:01:02 *** danmil has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:01:07 twill is a text web browser 2007-02-25T15:01:08 twill automates making web requests and testing those results 2007-02-25T15:01:19 *** thatch has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:01:20 browser is perhaps a bit of a stretch 2007-02-25T15:01:22 ah, so it's a bit like a non-gui selenium 2007-02-25T15:01:46 kind of... it's non javascript though 2007-02-25T15:01:50 *** thatch has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:01:55 are you familar with mechanize? 2007-02-25T15:01:59 no 2007-02-25T15:02:02 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:02:29 the next talk is about twill 2007-02-25T15:02:37 hmm... it's fancy urllib kind of... mixed in with some page parsing, and state (e.g. go to page, follow a link that has a title, go back, etc) 2007-02-25T15:02:46 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:02:48 wam_: did you get answer re the question about vim whitespace? 2007-02-25T15:02:54 so like beautiful soup? 2007-02-25T15:02:56 yeah, I did 2007-02-25T15:03:02 what was it? 2007-02-25T15:03:14 *** Six`oh`six has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:04:11 no... beautiful soup parses/normalizes HTML... twill is more focused on the actual web "feal" from a scripting standpoint... I think it might use BeautifulSOup to pull out tags and such (e.g. go to third link), but it's nich isn't in really in parsing HTML per se 2007-02-25T15:04:22 ah, ok 2007-02-25T15:04:27 <_matt_> twill is like scripting a browser engine 2007-02-25T15:04:38 <_matt_> and making assertions along the way 2007-02-25T15:04:42 dcf: the command was listchars=tab:>~,trail:- 2007-02-25T15:04:50 thanks 2007-02-25T15:04:52 ".. the requirements documents we get... seem like they were written by a lawyer who wanted to be an accountant" 2007-02-25T15:04:55 but for python he sets it to "nolist" 2007-02-25T15:04:58 also need to set list for that to work 2007-02-25T15:05:15 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:05:24 huh. So they didn't _plan_ a test track? 2007-02-25T15:05:25 *** dand has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:05:46 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:05:54 * dugan wonders why not 2007-02-25T15:05:55 *** clajo04 has left #pycon 2007-02-25T15:05:59 they did... *he* didn't though 2007-02-25T15:06:08 ah, ok 2007-02-25T15:06:11 well they effectively created a test track by keeping it in the same room 2007-02-25T15:06:31 *** efm has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:07:00 *** cbcunc has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:09:14 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:10:43 "figleaf increasingly popular besides the fact that it's the crappiest of my tools" - titus 2007-02-25T15:10:47 *** birkenfeld has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:10:49 anyone in scotch/twill? 2007-02-25T15:10:53 I am 2007-02-25T15:10:55 yes 2007-02-25T15:10:57 does figleaf use python_coverage? 2007-02-25T15:11:08 <_matt_> DPB: no 2007-02-25T15:11:22 <_matt_> it's another implementation 2007-02-25T15:11:24 let me know how good it is. I'm in komodo 2007-02-25T15:11:32 I'm liking it. 2007-02-25T15:11:47 titus is demoing. He's good 2007-02-25T15:12:00 hmmmm/... rggg..... 2007-02-25T15:12:04 fight! fight! 2007-02-25T15:12:11 he should've used emacs vile mode 2007-02-25T15:13:09 hrmmm... Doesn't nose include coverage testing built in? 2007-02-25T15:13:25 *** romanoffi has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:13:27 creiht: yes, but it's not as rich at figleaf 2007-02-25T15:13:34 or doesn't seem to be. 2007-02-25T15:14:09 ahh 2007-02-25T15:14:12 good to know 2007-02-25T15:15:17 I wonder if figleaf is faster too. 2007-02-25T15:15:26 coverage is SLOW 2007-02-25T15:15:39 * dugan wonders if figleaf would maintain our coverage.c module 2007-02-25T15:15:45 since ned batchler wouldn't take it 2007-02-25T15:16:08 That would be nice. 2007-02-25T15:16:11 heh the old stringio sys.stderr trick 2007-02-25T15:16:38 I like Titus. 2007-02-25T15:16:40 age seems to be inversely proportional to ability to open the olpc 2007-02-25T15:16:53 lift the ears! 2007-02-25T15:16:54 ari: protection from adult thieves! 2007-02-25T15:17:11 bringing rsi to all the worlds children 2007-02-25T15:17:27 Titus: "If you're not using WSGI.. there are other problems with you." 2007-02-25T15:17:36 * dugan is glad to have a presenter who can both present something interesting _and_ present it in an interesting way 2007-02-25T15:17:47 ok, I need to switch talks... 2007-02-25T15:17:55 demo driven talks rule 2007-02-25T15:18:03 one rsi per child 2007-02-25T15:18:09 haha 2007-02-25T15:18:10 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:18:19 hm i need a picture of children on the laptop 2007-02-25T15:18:24 *** sgeigerb` has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:18:28 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:18:28 two laptops per child 2007-02-25T15:18:51 3.8 laptops per child 2007-02-25T15:19:05 * dugan resolves to switch to figleaf 2007-02-25T15:19:12 .23 children per laptop 2007-02-25T15:19:26 *** xorAxAx has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:19:37 if we haven't exceeded it already we're close to the world having produced more cell phones than human children 2007-02-25T15:19:57 one discarded cellphone per child 2007-02-25T15:20:01 eventually we'll just be able to produce cell phones instead of children 2007-02-25T15:20:01 I wonder if the non-green triple-quotes means that it's going to count as not covered 2007-02-25T15:20:11 evolution in action 2007-02-25T15:20:21 50% coverage if you have a lot of doc strings 2007-02-25T15:20:46 New Komodo has a lot of completion and debugging added 2007-02-25T15:21:13 <_matt_> shawn: I believe triple quoted strings are only counted as one statement (line) 2007-02-25T15:21:22 komodo costs $ right? 2007-02-25T15:21:33 gps: yes 2007-02-25T15:21:34 the basic version is free now 2007-02-25T15:21:38 Ooo. 2007-02-25T15:21:45 4.0 2007-02-25T15:21:45 I think so. I dunno what is in the free "editor" 2007-02-25T15:21:48 It's pretty slick 2007-02-25T15:21:51 * ErikRose didn't find that obvious from the Buy page. ;-) 2007-02-25T15:21:51 anyone read the "Time's Eye" by Arthur C Clark? 2007-02-25T15:21:56 though just a bit slow 2007-02-25T15:22:02 What is the discount on Wing this year? 2007-02-25T15:22:05 look for Komodo Edit 2007-02-25T15:22:06 In it, every child is given a cell phone AI device at 13. 2007-02-25T15:22:11 No service charges. 2007-02-25T15:22:25 Cool concept 2007-02-25T15:22:47 horrible concept 2007-02-25T15:23:13 unless they suddenly require service charges when they turn 18 2007-02-25T15:23:26 heh 2007-02-25T15:23:28 50% off on Wing IDE last year with pycon06 2007-02-25T15:23:36 maybe pycon07 this year? 2007-02-25T15:23:52 * ErikRose shudders a little. 2007-02-25T15:24:47 *** mgalloy has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:25:08 *** starGaming- has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:26:03 anyone for a "how hard can it be?" lightning talk? 2007-02-25T15:26:14 obfuscated python 2007-02-25T15:26:28 haha 2007-02-25T15:26:35 what you mean ruby? 2007-02-25T15:26:55 heh 2007-02-25T15:27:07 lol 2007-02-25T15:27:17 what was he using the day before yesterday? 2007-02-25T15:27:53 zjangogears 2007-02-25T15:28:34 yay 2007-02-25T15:29:02 * dugan was surprised to see more emacs users than vi users in the room 2007-02-25T15:29:29 aww. I should have gone to the Testing ballroom and represented. :) 2007-02-25T15:29:30 * dougn uses komodo 2007-02-25T15:29:33 and wingWare 2007-02-25T15:29:35 yay dots 2007-02-25T15:29:47 *** cbcunc has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:29:55 (though these days, I alternate between vim, TextMate and SubEthaEdit) 2007-02-25T15:30:20 i saw equal numbers in the room 2007-02-25T15:30:22 *** dydimustk is now known as dydimustk_afk 2007-02-25T15:30:27 komodo 4 might be a contender 2007-02-25T15:30:33 showing django bugging now 2007-02-25T15:30:35 * Tv <3 Titus 2007-02-25T15:31:01 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:31:02 *** sgeigerbot has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:31:02 *** sgeigerbot2 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:31:45 *** jacobkm has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:31:49 komodo is only major proggy I know using Mozilla XUL/XPCOM 2007-02-25T15:32:03 I've seen a lot of people typing "clear" at command prompts today, so I'll just mention that ctrl-L usually does the same thing. 2007-02-25T15:32:24 *** wam_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:32:59 thats a habitual thing for many people 2007-02-25T15:33:13 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:33:15 "366? this is a very fast machine!" 2007-02-25T15:33:26 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:33:48 hmm, you can make mozilla components (XPCOM) in Python 2007-02-25T15:33:59 for CPP/Javascript to call 2007-02-25T15:34:09 clear works everywhere, some places ctrl-L does a print terminal 2007-02-25T15:34:20 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:34:26 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:34:31 i tried to use xpcom to embed gecko in a way that gave more control than gtkmozembed 2007-02-25T15:34:38 i never got anywhere 2007-02-25T15:34:48 that is what I hear, ari 2007-02-25T15:34:58 he is showing a bunch of examples 2007-02-25T15:35:07 about embedding gecko? 2007-02-25T15:35:18 or embedding python 2007-02-25T15:35:28 2nd 2007-02-25T15:35:32 oh 2007-02-25T15:36:04 I could ask about that if there's time and you'd like me to 2007-02-25T15:36:11 which talk is this? 2007-02-25T15:36:17 Komodo 2007-02-25T15:36:26 where's that testing mailing list hosted? 2007-02-25T15:36:34 presenter is talking about tech used to build/exend it 2007-02-25T15:36:39 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:36:39 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:36:57 pybot or trac... hmmm 2007-02-25T15:37:01 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:37:14 *** coderanger_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:37:18 *** rmunn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:37:26 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:37:28 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T15:37:33 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:37:36 *** loafman has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:37:53 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:37:58 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:38:14 some talks i just wish weren't at the same time 2007-02-25T15:38:16 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:38:54 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:38:54 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:39:08 *** wam_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:39:27 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:39:58 *** kn6xq has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:40:59 pybots is too loud! 2007-02-25T15:41:16 *** rmunn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:41:29 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:42:15 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:42:42 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:43:00 *** xorAxAx has left #pycon 2007-02-25T15:43:56 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:44:11 TRAC 2007-02-25T15:44:16 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:44:17 INdeed. 2007-02-25T15:44:17 ack 2007-02-25T15:44:43 Trac wiki is almost a superset of MoinMoin. 2007-02-25T15:45:18 yep, it was originally heavily influenced by moin syntax 2007-02-25T15:45:35 ugh wiki synta 2007-02-25T15:46:14 ErikRose: yeah, it's similar enough to MoinMoin that I wrote a generic highlighter for them for Pygments 2007-02-25T15:46:28 :-D 2007-02-25T15:46:53 We've been known to copy and paste stuff between Trac and ZWiki-pretending-to-be-MoinMoin. 2007-02-25T15:47:19 *** dydimustk_afk has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:47:54 *** pobrien has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:47:58 Blame rox0rs my sox0rs. 2007-02-25T15:47:59 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:48:18 S5 font issues strike again 2007-02-25T15:49:08 *** Scotticus has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:49:19 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:49:20 yay for plugins! 2007-02-25T15:49:29 *** clajo04 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:49:43 Did anyone get the url for the twill, scotch, etc. presentation file? 2007-02-25T15:50:01 Yes... 2007-02-25T15:50:02 not sure there was one 2007-02-25T15:50:02 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:50:10 yeah hold on 2007-02-25T15:50:13 http://www.idyll.org.org/pycon.zip 2007-02-25T15:50:17 *** robg_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:50:24 yup, what Erik said 2007-02-25T15:50:34 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:50:41 thx 2007-02-25T15:50:57 np 2007-02-25T15:50:58 org dot org 2007-02-25T15:51:04 ah, thx 2007-02-25T15:51:29 ok, what Erik said minus the second .org. :-) 2007-02-25T15:51:41 Thanks Erik, wam_ 2007-02-25T15:54:04 *** mgalloy has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:55:08 *** loafman has left #pycon 2007-02-25T15:57:59 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T15:58:13 *** sgeigerb` has quit IRC 2007-02-25T15:58:57 *** ptme has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:01:46 " 2007-02-25T16:04:17 *** Six`oh`six has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:04:37 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:05:29 *** cablehead has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:06:15 " 2007-02-25T16:06:22 (That was bothing bothering me. ;-)) 2007-02-25T16:06:41 updated presos notes at http://wamber.net/static/PyCon-2007/ with notes from Fixtures talk, Vim talk, Stackless, Testing Tools (twill, etc), and Trac talks 2007-02-25T16:07:38 Heh, ErikRose.. Had to close those quotes 2007-02-25T16:07:45 *** pfein changes topic to "Bad weather in N.America; check your flight! http://www.dfwairport.com/flights/fids.php?FIDStype=D Today's logs: http://weblion.psu.edu/pyconlogs/2007/02/25.txt Some notes: https://weblion.psu.edu/trac/weblion/wiki/PyCon" 2007-02-25T16:07:48 Yeah, you crazy quoting person, you. ;-) 2007-02-25T16:08:04 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:09:00 I think I'm done with formal talks for the day 2007-02-25T16:09:12 Jython is next for me 2007-02-25T16:09:23 *** rmunn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:09:46 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:09:58 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:10:16 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:10:19 Me, too. I gotta see this Jython abomination for myself 2007-02-25T16:10:26 *** stati1 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:10:37 Packaging for me! 2007-02-25T16:10:45 (jk about the abomination stuff, but it does seem very unnatural to me) 2007-02-25T16:10:45 Java has a lot of nice libraries. 2007-02-25T16:10:53 Mmm cheese 2007-02-25T16:10:54 Hooray abominations! 2007-02-25T16:11:00 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:11:04 I know. I would love to use them in Python, if that is really possible. 2007-02-25T16:11:07 *** shawn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:11:10 *** Scotticus has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:11:27 hey, food! 2007-02-25T16:11:34 *mad rush* 2007-02-25T16:11:49 2007-02-25T16:12:46 *** ptme has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:13:40 *** exogen has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:13:46 If anyone is interested in getting Ubuntu running on their laptop, we're doing an Ubuntu installfest in the ballroom after the sprint introductions. tell your friends! I'm burning livecds now so you can test whether ubuntu works on your laptop without making a commitment to a full install, if you prefer that. 2007-02-25T16:13:51 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:14:02 6:15 or 6:30 2007-02-25T16:14:13 * pfein <3 ubuntu 2007-02-25T16:14:17 make sure to burn some ppc 2007-02-25T16:14:49 ari: I forgot to bring a PPC iso with me, but I have plenty of blank CDs. Does someone have the PPC iso? 2007-02-25T16:15:07 i was about to suggest downloading it and then caught myself 2007-02-25T16:15:12 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:15:38 openspace at 3:30 in Preston I -- REST, databases, & RESTful databases :) 2007-02-25T16:15:55 *** cablehead has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:16:25 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:16:57 *** dugan has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:19:13 *** thatch has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:19:47 *** dcf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:21:18 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:22:17 *** coderanger_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:22:45 statil--you guys have a functioning tor livecd? 2007-02-25T16:23:23 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:23:29 maelztrom: tor? 2007-02-25T16:23:57 the onion routing network 2007-02-25T16:24:11 *** kn6xq has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:24:32 maelztrom: I don't know much about tor, but that sounds like a cool thing to put on a livecd 2007-02-25T16:24:49 only ask because I currently run the vmware Browser-appliance image (ubuntu based)--and I had to do a bit of modification to get tor going on it...so of course I'm interested in something even more minimal if it exists :) 2007-02-25T16:24:51 *** exogen has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:24:58 packaging is about to start 2007-02-25T16:25:04 ...maybe 2007-02-25T16:25:15 I think you need to add umm...god...there's directions on ubuntu...but tor and privoxy to get it working 2007-02-25T16:25:18 *** thatch has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:25:22 other than that it's a two or three line config change 2007-02-25T16:25:37 attendance in jython seems low but i guess we've still got 5mins 2007-02-25T16:25:42 you can install foxyproxy for firefox that will automatically set up a tor proxy 2007-02-25T16:25:52 torbutton :0 2007-02-25T16:26:03 gives a nice little button you click in bottom right to turn the tor proxy on/off 2007-02-25T16:26:25 *** jerry_s has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:26:26 nice 2007-02-25T16:26:28 or is foxproxy something that looks for open nodes? 2007-02-25T16:26:54 (didn't think tor had entrance nodes) 2007-02-25T16:27:00 *** clajo06 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:27:09 *** exogen has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:27:11 guess it'd just be a publily accessible socks though... 2007-02-25T16:27:21 *** _matt_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:28:24 *** clajo04 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:29:29 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:30:14 *** _matt_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:30:55 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:31:54 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:32:13 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:32:22 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:32:23 *** sgeigerb` has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:33:06 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:34:06 *** efm has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:34:22 heh, dude in front of me has beer bottles stuffed in his pockets. 2007-02-25T16:34:22 "Complexity is not a necessary compontent of programming" 2007-02-25T16:34:40 s/compontent/component/ 2007-02-25T16:34:50 they were on the 'free have one' table earlier. 2007-02-25T16:35:13 I thought about doing exactly that... 2007-02-25T16:35:28 * DreadPirateBob thinks that the definition for "one" has changed since I was a kid 2007-02-25T16:35:49 large value of one 2007-02-25T16:35:49 *** four0four has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:36:35 *** cbcunc has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:37:22 *** robg_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:37:49 *** cbcunc has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:37:55 *** romanoffi has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:38:52 *** dijix has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:39:19 on behalf of #chipy, can someone with a camera take a picture of Guido wearing our button? 2007-02-25T16:39:21 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:39:54 "mask the names on resumes before you review them, to eliminate a source of bias" 2007-02-25T16:40:01 anyone here know if there's any plans to update decompyler anywhere? 2007-02-25T16:40:05 "offer reasonable work hours" 2007-02-25T16:40:15 efm: where are you? 2007-02-25T16:40:40 and what are doing? 2007-02-25T16:41:36 sounds like hes in women 2007-02-25T16:42:27 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:42:46 making notes of anna's women in IT talk 2007-02-25T16:42:46 *** greenfngrs has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:42:59 *** jerryseutter has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:43:32 efm: can you post 'em somewhere? 2007-02-25T16:43:40 yes 2007-02-25T16:43:44 Woo. 2007-02-25T16:45:53 hmm hope i left my cellphone in my room and not on a conf table somewhere 2007-02-25T16:46:04 what's the number gps? 2007-02-25T16:46:08 Java: Giving you 5x the carpal tunnel since 1995 2007-02-25T16:46:12 *** dijix has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:46:40 that's emacs+java 2007-02-25T16:47:35 They wrote a dbapi wrapper around JDBC 2007-02-25T16:47:39 *** T1 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:47:45 *** Tv has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:47:46 *** kn6xq has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:47:47 pfein: That's cool. 2007-02-25T16:47:52 yeah 2007-02-25T16:47:59 *** T1 is now known as Tv 2007-02-25T16:48:00 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:48:01 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T16:48:02 Gotta run on the JVM, though, right? 2007-02-25T16:48:10 ErikRose: that's the whole idea 2007-02-25T16:48:12 *** clajo06 is now known as clajo04 2007-02-25T16:48:19 i still find the stuck on 2.2 thing to be a problem. when that gets updated that'll be nice 2007-02-25T16:48:19 RIght. :-) 2007-02-25T16:48:27 wow, jython is ending way early 2007-02-25T16:49:59 but it's not a dead project, of that we can be sure 2007-02-25T16:50:00 ... 2007-02-25T16:50:22 pypy! 2007-02-25T16:50:32 i think they're going to have a difficult time convincing people to use it while it's still on 2.2 2007-02-25T16:50:49 once upon a time jython swing was the best gui library available for python 2007-02-25T16:51:03 You know, I had heard that it is a dead project. :-) 2007-02-25T16:51:23 turns out it was only mostly dead 2007-02-25T16:51:39 lol 2007-02-25T16:51:42 it's feeling better! 2007-02-25T16:51:47 resting, pining, etc 2007-02-25T16:52:02 fjords 2007-02-25T16:52:27 pushing up daisies! 2007-02-25T16:53:18 pypy 2007-02-25T16:54:11 *** efm has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:54:44 qt clubs swing 2007-02-25T16:55:36 Wait, so there there an unloved stepchild of the unloved stepchild? 2007-02-25T16:55:38 *** Six`oh`six has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T16:56:19 hmm, i wonder if i can print a pdf somewhere around here... 2007-02-25T16:56:19 pyobjc + cocoa is the only gui programming i've done that didn't make me want to punch walls 2007-02-25T16:56:34 i've heard that too 2007-02-25T16:57:07 and yes to the qt comment. its what i tell anyone unsure to use 2007-02-25T16:57:07 Cocoa is my favorite framework for anything in any language ever. 2007-02-25T16:57:21 PyObjC is a beautiful thing. i need to use it more. 2007-02-25T16:57:32 You can code up functionality on the TiVO with Jython through their Home Media Options. 2007-02-25T16:57:43 straight objC is not horrible but memory managment is frustrating 2007-02-25T16:57:54 with cocoa 2007-02-25T16:57:54 Six`oh`six: thats what ObjC 2.0 is for 2007-02-25T16:57:55 <_matt_> I used wx years ago (2001) and it was pretty straightforward.... (ducks) 2007-02-25T16:58:10 Six`oh`six: automatic gc ;) 2007-02-25T16:58:13 jyjy 2007-02-25T16:58:15 yay! 2007-02-25T16:58:17 hehe nice wam_ 2007-02-25T16:58:19 <_matt_> sure it's a little c++ish but it worked.... 2007-02-25T16:58:23 this guy asked the same question I did... 2007-02-25T16:58:28 Question for Jython people: is anyone aware of a project to create an eclipse plugin written in Jython? 2007-02-25T16:58:50 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T16:59:04 thatd be neat 2007-02-25T16:59:15 americans pronounce "java" like "jawwwva" 2007-02-25T16:59:30 i think that's kinda funny 2007-02-25T16:59:36 <_matt_> 606: how else would one say it? 2007-02-25T16:59:42 Six`oh`six: Maybe it's Texans. 2007-02-25T16:59:49 but I say "bleu cheese" like "bluh" so i can't talk :) 2007-02-25T16:59:50 <_matt_> "jayva"? 2007-02-25T16:59:50 I say "JAH-vuh". 2007-02-25T16:59:53 jabba 2007-02-25T16:59:55 jah-vah 2007-02-25T16:59:56 as in we extend the aww sound, or do you have a different pronunctiation? 2007-02-25T17:00:06 * pfein says it "hell" 2007-02-25T17:00:10 lewl 2007-02-25T17:00:17 funny, that's the way I pronounce XML too. ;) 2007-02-25T17:00:24 We don't use that J word round these parts 2007-02-25T17:00:50 java + eclipse is my second favorite language (python #1 obviously) 2007-02-25T17:01:01 packaging talk is amusing 2007-02-25T17:01:01 but eclipse is absolutely required 2007-02-25T17:01:04 yay pissing on eggs! 2007-02-25T17:01:05 Hmmm, classpaths. That's always been something I've thought twice of in Pythyon. 2007-02-25T17:01:11 ever seen intellij? 2007-02-25T17:01:16 'course that's ...not...free 2007-02-25T17:01:46 intellij is okay, but the unfree-ness is a limiting factor 2007-02-25T17:02:28 Always liked it dramatically more than eclipse and it's painful Slooooooooooowness 2007-02-25T17:02:44 hmm can't apt-get install eclipse with this low bandwidth 2007-02-25T17:02:47 yeah, eclipse is a hog but it does work 2007-02-25T17:02:57 lol 2007-02-25T17:02:59 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:03:04 that'll take a few days to download 2007-02-25T17:03:30 I heard in eclipse, you write XML instead of code. 2007-02-25T17:03:34 LIES 2007-02-25T17:03:40 SOAP. 2007-02-25T17:03:43 you don't actually write code 2007-02-25T17:03:49 wam_: ha 2007-02-25T17:03:57 you just hit Ctrl-Space until autocompletion writes the code for you 2007-02-25T17:04:41 it's a great feeling when you type "a ctrl-space" and it becomes "aReallyHugeJavaMethod(With variables, And types, Listed already)" 2007-02-25T17:05:07 did that guy just say he used a JVM embedded in Cpython? 2007-02-25T17:05:28 I didn't catch the answer... 2007-02-25T17:05:33 * ErikRose is only 1336. 2007-02-25T17:05:40 jypy 2007-02-25T17:05:45 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:05:49 write soap by hand? no thanks, i'll take up writing apl in hex utf-8 2007-02-25T17:05:50 heh. 2007-02-25T17:06:18 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:06:41 someone should run PyPy on Jython 2007-02-25T17:06:51 anyone interested in JPython# (Jython on the CLR)? 2007-02-25T17:07:07 wam_: That's an abomination. *claps* 2007-02-25T17:07:16 isn't that IronPython? 2007-02-25T17:07:18 java runs on the clr? 2007-02-25T17:07:29 <--- was making a funny (or trying to) 2007-02-25T17:07:31 *** sod has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:07:33 phew 2007-02-25T17:07:40 Careful, somebody will implement it. 2007-02-25T17:07:40 * Six`oh`six is a literal bastard 2007-02-25T17:08:01 Different from "literally a bastard"? 2007-02-25T17:08:26 *** mgalloy has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:08:40 * ErikRose predicts a glut of Rubik's Cube solvers in the wake of this conference. 2007-02-25T17:09:06 Anyone actually have the algorithm memorized here? 2007-02-25T17:09:18 ErikRose: The lego mindstorms rubik's cube solver is the ultimate 2007-02-25T17:09:29 triangle circle circle circle up down up down left up select X 2007-02-25T17:09:48 retracile: Yeah? *googles* 2007-02-25T17:09:52 U D U D L R L R B A B A Select Start 2007-02-25T17:10:06 *** shawn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:10:17 there is a lightening sprint on solving the rubiks. 2007-02-25T17:10:24 haha 2007-02-25T17:10:26 wam_: Do you know when? 2007-02-25T17:10:32 sorry... not sprint 2007-02-25T17:10:35 lightening talk... 2007-02-25T17:10:40 wait..a lightning talk on rubiks? 2007-02-25T17:10:42 where, when? 2007-02-25T17:10:49 In 15 minutes? 2007-02-25T17:11:02 during the lightening talks I would assume... I saw it on the list of accepted lightening talks. 2007-02-25T17:11:10 Whee!! 2007-02-25T17:11:12 up by the registration counter 2007-02-25T17:11:24 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:11:27 i fail at the rubik's cube 2007-02-25T17:11:29 got lightning talks mixed up with bof in head 2007-02-25T17:11:32 lack of patience 2007-02-25T17:11:39 I wanted to use PyObjC to access the MacBook camera, show the camera the cube, and get a list of steps out of it. 2007-02-25T17:12:11 Or get an PyGame follow-along 3D demo for additional fun. 2007-02-25T17:12:27 I think it would make a good PUG series of sprints. 2007-02-25T17:12:31 You could build it up slowly. 2007-02-25T17:12:36 It touches a lot of libs. 2007-02-25T17:12:41 that'd be cool... a pygame (or pyOpenGL) rubiks solver. 2007-02-25T17:13:00 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:13:07 stepping off to get some snacks 2007-02-25T17:13:42 JPype: JVM in CPython 2007-02-25T17:15:24 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:17:10 *** dijix has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:18:07 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:18:10 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:19:25 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:19:42 *** Tv has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:19:46 *** Six`oh`six has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:19:46 *** mgalloy has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:20:42 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:21:49 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:21:56 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:23:25 *** jerry_seutter has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:23:26 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:24:52 *** mgalloy has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:25:21 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:26:16 *** shawn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:26:27 *** rsf has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:26:42 *** cablehead has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:27:36 *** tpollari has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:28:18 *** creiht has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:28:55 *** tsuno has left #pycon 2007-02-25T17:29:02 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:30:37 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:31:39 *** mwh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:31:46 they're paging "Alvin Wang"(?) 2007-02-25T17:31:57 *** exogen has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:32:01 *** cablehead has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:32:05 *** Tv has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:33:19 *** starGaming- has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:34:10 to the metal! 2007-02-25T17:34:26 *** nerd_alert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:34:29 ~Everybody to the limit...~ 2007-02-25T17:35:04 anyone see David Goodger? 2007-02-25T17:35:05 that's kind of neat... 2007-02-25T17:35:48 Soon there are going to be more game frameworks for pythan than there are for web frameworks :) 2007-02-25T17:35:56 David was just heading out to the lobby 2007-02-25T17:36:09 I've got Alvin's cell # if he needs it 2007-02-25T17:36:28 If I see him I will let him know (who are you?) 2007-02-25T17:36:34 Ted Pollari 2007-02-25T17:36:40 duh! 2007-02-25T17:36:42 *** kn6xq2 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:36:45 ;) 2007-02-25T17:36:54 *** kn6xq has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:37:04 *** mpirnat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:37:14 pyglet.org: it's not the 80's 2007-02-25T17:37:38 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:37:39 I want to reimplement Python as a GL shader. ;-) 2007-02-25T17:37:52 (You could probably do Lisp.) 2007-02-25T17:38:11 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:39:37 dougn: never mind -- I found David 2007-02-25T17:39:40 thanks though 2007-02-25T17:39:44 K 2007-02-25T17:40:39 1 3 4 7 11 8 2 3 4 5 2007-02-25T17:40:46 * ErikRose Thd, gps. 2007-02-25T17:40:49 Thx, rather 2007-02-25T17:41:05 asscam 2007-02-25T17:41:58 *** jerry_s has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:42:15 nice 2007-02-25T17:42:38 YES. 2007-02-25T17:45:51 is this IronPython or PyPy? 2007-02-25T17:45:55 PyPy 2007-02-25T17:46:14 ok, that's what I thought, but it keeps sounding like IronPython 2007-02-25T17:46:21 Newp. 2007-02-25T17:46:28 *** sgeigerb` has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:46:37 RPython's cheaper. ;-) 2007-02-25T17:46:49 and os independent 2007-02-25T17:47:09 *** sgeigerbot has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:47:14 What about ShedSkin? 2007-02-25T17:47:17 Who is the guy that did the Rubik's cube? 2007-02-25T17:47:28 My hero. 2007-02-25T17:47:35 *** Six`oh`six has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:47:37 From EWT. didn't catch the name 2007-02-25T17:47:57 google for fasted rubix cube solver blindfolded 2007-02-25T17:49:22 http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/16/213232 2007-02-25T17:49:33 *** matt_c has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:49:38 slashdot: error 2007-02-25T17:49:44 "if you don't know what forth is, i'm not going to be the one to tell you" 2007-02-25T17:49:52 ha 2007-02-25T17:50:17 What's this guy's name? 2007-02-25T17:50:38 *** matt_c has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:50:40 *** jerry_seutter is now known as jerry_s 2007-02-25T17:50:47 *** rsf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:51:25 http://calroc.home.mindspring.com/xerblin/ 2007-02-25T17:52:15 wam_: thanks 2007-02-25T17:52:35 "Release 0.8 (beta) now available. Fri Dec 9 2005." doesn't inspire confidence 2007-02-25T17:52:58 Leyan Lo 2007-02-25T17:53:07 apparently, being nervous makes the interface hard to use.... 2007-02-25T17:53:38 sgeigerbot: Leyan Lo 2007-02-25T17:53:55 the main domain is just domain parked 2007-02-25T17:54:07 dougn: the cubist? 2007-02-25T17:54:15 http://xerblin.com/trac/wiki 2007-02-25T17:55:04 sgeigerbot: yup 2007-02-25T17:55:17 *** sod has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:55:36 http://www.its.caltech.edu/~leyanlo/ 2007-02-25T17:55:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyan_Lo 2007-02-25T17:55:49 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T17:56:57 *** ianbicking has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:57:29 there is no time for background info in lightning talks... 2007-02-25T17:57:41 True. 2007-02-25T17:57:43 dougn: wow. 2007-02-25T17:57:43 y no kidding... 2007-02-25T17:58:23 slide that listed the critical info (URL) was on for what, 2 seconds? 2007-02-25T17:58:57 30 seconds background, 4:30 demo and explanation seems like a better combo 2007-02-25T17:59:06 last year, there was a "how to do a lightning talk" lightning talk... it was pretty good 2007-02-25T17:59:09 or as ianbicking did, 15 seconds of background, the rest demo ;) 2007-02-25T17:59:30 Wasn't there a "how not to" also? 2007-02-25T17:59:50 *** _moshez has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T17:59:55 *** dstanek has left #pycon 2007-02-25T18:00:01 *** sod has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:00:06 * ErikRose pukes w.r.t. direct conversion. 2007-02-25T18:00:14 <_moshez> I eat people's tummy now 2007-02-25T18:00:21 * ErikRose still eats hawks. 2007-02-25T18:00:30 * ErikRose covers his tummy. 2007-02-25T18:00:33 what is a hawk and handsaw? 2007-02-25T18:00:50 types of birds 2007-02-25T18:00:54 http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1489695 2007-02-25T18:02:01 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:02:13 *** mpirnat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:02:22 _moshez: Yay. 2007-02-25T18:02:33 <_moshez> tummiesssssssssss 2007-02-25T18:02:42 <_moshez> does tummy.com plan to buy me tummies to eat 2007-02-25T18:02:54 <_moshez> my tummy eating needs are genormous 2007-02-25T18:02:58 http://www.jonathancoulton.com/lyrics/re-your-brains 2007-02-25T18:04:35 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:04:41 *** gtalvola has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:04:50 my tummy is full 2007-02-25T18:04:53 dot com 2007-02-25T18:05:18 593 attendees, 44% up over 2006 2007-02-25T18:05:41 rock on. 2007-02-25T18:05:55 ok that's weird 2007-02-25T18:06:13 tpollari is made up of part of my name 2007-02-25T18:06:32 heh. 2007-02-25T18:06:39 aweeee 2007-02-25T18:07:13 Someone add this to your suggestion form for next year: Hang up signs for #pycon on irc.freenode.net 2007-02-25T18:07:21 I'm out of here shortly. 2007-02-25T18:07:31 i like how it only said #pycon 2007-02-25T18:07:31 there was one 2007-02-25T18:07:35 +1 2007-02-25T18:07:37 and nobody added freenode until today 2007-02-25T18:07:40 not a good one 2007-02-25T18:07:42 aaaaahhhh 2007-02-25T18:07:43 next year there should be a caching proxy 2007-02-25T18:07:44 sorry 2007-02-25T18:07:51 yes, we've covered that 2007-02-25T18:07:51 but much better than none 2007-02-25T18:08:01 the caching that is -- it's been discussed 2007-02-25T18:08:09 *** creiht has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:08:19 and free laptops for everyone 2007-02-25T18:08:25 flfe 2007-02-25T18:08:38 One Laptop Per Attendee 2007-02-25T18:08:47 OLPA 2007-02-25T18:08:59 ASOL [a sea of laptops] 2007-02-25T18:09:13 *** neuralis has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:09:16 *** edbrannin has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:09:35 wam_: you said the magic word 2007-02-25T18:09:39 aww i hoped for ca 2007-02-25T18:09:43 sorry 2007-02-25T18:09:54 since its <10 miles from home 2007-02-25T18:09:57 which word? 2007-02-25T18:10:01 where's next year? 2007-02-25T18:10:07 Chicago in March? 2007-02-25T18:10:08 Chicago 2007-02-25T18:10:10 Chicago 2007-02-25T18:10:12 chicago probably march 14thish 2007-02-25T18:10:13 rock 2007-02-25T18:10:16 but... in march? 2007-02-25T18:10:19 14th through 16th (tentativly) 2007-02-25T18:10:42 Isn't that where they are currently getting pounded with snow & ice? 2007-02-25T18:10:52 =) 2007-02-25T18:11:00 Well yes, but it's Feb right now. :-) 2007-02-25T18:11:15 where aren't they getting pounded with snow & ice 2007-02-25T18:11:25 we wrote global warming into our bid 2007-02-25T18:11:29 =) 2007-02-25T18:11:34 yeah, it's a whole 2 weeks earlier right now. :) 2007-02-25T18:11:37 ok guys, use more aerosol cans before next year 2007-02-25T18:12:15 have a good one y'all I've got a flight to catch! 2007-02-25T18:12:19 *** tpollari has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:13:53 *** mgalloy has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:13:59 *** dcf has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:14:01 *** romanoffi has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:14:02 *** clajo04 has left #pycon 2007-02-25T18:14:20 *** kn6xq2 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:14:58 gps: your flight still in the morning? 2007-02-25T18:15:22 Ok... PyCon is over... updated presos notes at http://wamber.net/static/PyCon-2007/ has all my notes for the session 2007-02-25T18:15:37 I'm heading back to Austin.... it was fun y'all 2007-02-25T18:16:02 *** mwh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:16:16 *** wam_ has left #pycon 2007-02-25T18:16:48 I'm in the main ballroom wearing a hat and clutching a stack of ubuntu CDs, will be around to help anyone who wants help with installing ubuntu after the sprint introductions are finished 2007-02-25T18:16:48 *** _moshez has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:17:20 *** cbcunc has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:17:31 whee installfest. 2007-02-25T18:17:50 go stati1! 2007-02-25T18:18:00 i'll pimp the networkmanager package and show people how to set that up for anyone who thinks wireless on linux is painful 2007-02-25T18:18:12 yay networkmanager 2007-02-25T18:18:56 boo networkmanager 2007-02-25T18:18:58 *** dydimustk has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:20:21 brr cold 2007-02-25T18:23:44 *** retracile has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:23:53 *** retracile has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:23:55 nm is good except when nm-applet breaks 2007-02-25T18:24:22 the version in edgy has been decent for me, much improved over older ones 2007-02-25T18:24:24 yeah, broken stuff sucks 2007-02-25T18:24:42 the version in feisty is even better, has support for static IP configuration 2007-02-25T18:25:02 *** rmunn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:25:39 nice. my friend was just whining about that being missing the other day 2007-02-25T18:26:04 static ips for particular wireless nets, etc. 2007-02-25T18:27:20 *** rmunn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:30:42 statil you wanted a ride in the early am right? 2007-02-25T18:30:53 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:31:20 gps: that would rock! 2007-02-25T18:31:57 gps: what time are you leaving? 2007-02-25T18:32:41 ok. you said 7am flight right? i proposed meet at 4:30 am to the other two who are in my car 2007-02-25T18:33:07 i am sooo sleeping on the plane tomorrow 2007-02-25T18:33:12 gps: sounds great, I'll be in the lobby at 4:30 am. thanks for the ride :) 2007-02-25T18:33:20 cool 2007-02-25T18:34:12 err, wait 2007-02-25T18:34:19 this person is talking to us about education? 2007-02-25T18:34:29 doomed, I tell you, the world is 2007-02-25T18:34:56 heh 2007-02-25T18:35:29 we'll (the us) correct our doom only after destroying one generation 2007-02-25T18:36:07 anyone who wants to split a cab to DAL, mine should be here in ~ 25 minutes 2007-02-25T18:36:07 or i'm just a pessimist and we'll be fine :) 2007-02-25T18:36:16 should've offered earlier but I'm forgetful like that 2007-02-25T18:36:38 oh yeah just to confirm, DFW right statil? 2007-02-25T18:37:00 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:37:08 gps: yep, DFW 2007-02-25T18:37:21 good. wouldn't wanna show up at the wrong airport 2007-02-25T18:37:25 PYCON-TECH!!!!! 2007-02-25T18:37:34 in finnish most of the orthographs are still undiscovered country 2007-02-25T18:37:34 http://us.pycon.org/TX2007/PyConTechSprint 2007-02-25T18:37:44 http://us.pycon.org/TX2007/PyConTech 2007-02-25T18:37:56 [/spam/ 2007-02-25T18:37:57 ] 2007-02-25T18:38:13 Anyone know if the chat sprint is going to have a channel somewhere tomorrow? 2007-02-25T18:38:16 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:38:30 dinner anyone? 2007-02-25T18:38:41 *** dougn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:39:11 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:39:34 *** greenfngrs has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:39:47 *heads to room* 2007-02-25T18:39:58 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:40:12 *** Six`oh`six has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:41:08 *** thatch has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:41:08 laugh...great bug on /. F22 cross dateline, onboard nav and comms crash 2007-02-25T18:48:04 *** benbangert has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T18:48:14 *** cablehead has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:57:21 *** coderanger_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T18:58:22 haha maelztrom 2007-02-25T18:59:52 *** jerry_s has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:00:38 *** _matt_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:01:01 *** sgeigerbot has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:01:14 *** _matt_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:02:13 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:03:32 *** shawn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:06:04 *** rmunn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:07:50 *** nerd_alert_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:08:13 *** nerd_alert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:09:27 *** nerd_alert_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:09:43 anyone got a floor I could crash on? might end up staying an extra night or two for sprints/plane delays.... 2007-02-25T19:13:57 *** dand has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:14:20 *** retracile has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:20:01 yay found my phone on silent buried in my bag 2007-02-25T19:24:25 *** heyadayo has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:24:41 Hello. Anyone driving into Dallas this evening? 2007-02-25T19:24:54 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:25:27 *** benbangert has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:29:28 *** fawad has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:29:50 *** fawad has left #pycon 2007-02-25T19:32:17 toscawidgets people here? 2007-02-25T19:32:23 I have a bug in examples. 2007-02-25T19:35:55 *** stati1 has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:37:12 *** primco-- has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:41:06 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:41:13 *** pfein has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:42:00 *** _matt_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:46:02 *** dijix has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T19:46:18 *** primco- has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:47:33 What's everyone doing? 2007-02-25T19:49:39 dijix: stalking twisted crowd in lobby for dinner 2007-02-25T19:50:29 *** Tv has quit IRC 2007-02-25T19:58:15 sitting in an airport 2007-02-25T19:58:59 ugh.. where are you flying to? any delays? 2007-02-25T19:59:25 boston.. so far only 45 minute delay 2007-02-25T19:59:40 not too bad 2007-02-25T19:59:43 we got here way too early even including the time it took to get from the wrong terminal to the right one 2007-02-25T20:02:43 *** sod has quit IRC 2007-02-25T20:03:18 trying to change my flight to Wednesday - can do it for free & gonna hang out 2 more days & sprint 2007-02-25T20:03:22 oh, and drinking a beer. ;) 2007-02-25T20:04:31 *** jesusphreak has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:05:44 *** rmunn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:09:26 dinner anyone? *wanders back to lobby* 2007-02-25T20:10:13 gps: maybe... depends on how damn long I'm on hold with AA 2007-02-25T20:12:41 eh coulda been worse 2007-02-25T20:17:54 *** jesusphreak has left #pycon 2007-02-25T20:25:49 *** thatch has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:26:27 *** gldnspud has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:27:45 *** dijix has quit IRC 2007-02-25T20:38:46 *** rmunn has quit IRC 2007-02-25T20:41:30 *** gldnspud has quit IRC 2007-02-25T20:41:44 * pfein stays another 2 days 2007-02-25T20:42:30 *** gldnspud has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:50:39 *** lhuynh has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:59:11 *** coderanger__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T20:59:11 *** coderanger__ is now known as coderanger_ 2007-02-25T20:59:12 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:03:29 *** shredwheat has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:04:43 *** _chris__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:04:43 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:07:02 *** lhuynh has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:08:22 *** _chris__ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:08:30 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:10:07 *** _chris__ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:10:07 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:11:47 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:11:48 *** _chris__ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:13:53 *** pfein has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:14:31 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:15:26 hey, does anyone here (pycon hotel) have the vmware fusion installer? 2007-02-25T21:16:07 pulling it from their site is taking a long time and keeps failing 2007-02-25T21:27:48 *** thatch has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:34:47 *** mrshoe has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:41:01 *** grb has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:42:47 *** exogen has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:46:39 *** stati1 has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:46:43 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:46:46 *** _chris_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T21:54:25 *** bryan_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T21:58:01 *** mrshoe has left #pycon 2007-02-25T21:59:04 *** exogen has quit IRC 2007-02-25T22:01:23 *** _chris_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T22:08:49 *** ErikRose has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T22:11:51 *** Tv has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T22:13:01 *** Six`oh`six has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T22:15:50 *** stati1 has left #pycon 2007-02-25T22:34:22 Zalmiakki in the games room! 2007-02-25T22:34:34 go taste it! it's yummy! you'll love it! 2007-02-25T22:37:18 Six`oh`six: are you finnish? 2007-02-25T22:37:31 who brought salmiac? 2007-02-25T22:38:04 * Tv looks at Jukka 2007-02-25T22:38:05 i don't know 2007-02-25T22:38:13 i was trying to trick people 2007-02-25T22:38:15 there's only three finns here 2007-02-25T22:38:19 I didn't do it ;) 2007-02-25T22:38:30 it's on a table. there are four "levels" of horridness. 2007-02-25T22:38:34 hehe 2007-02-25T22:38:37 i got to 2. doubt I'll go on. 2007-02-25T22:39:17 first time i tried it i was tricked into it. found it at an import store and thought "gee, I love licorice" 2007-02-25T22:39:22 it's an acquired taste 2007-02-25T22:39:23 oh man 2007-02-25T22:39:32 very much so 2007-02-25T22:39:50 wikipedia "sisu" for a good background on the associations from the taste 2007-02-25T22:41:39 *** dydimustk has quit IRC 2007-02-25T22:44:25 *** wastoid has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T22:44:26 i don't think i have the sisu to get to level four of the zalmiakki 2007-02-25T22:51:21 *** grb has quit IRC 2007-02-25T22:57:08 someone please unclog these intarweb tubes! 2007-02-25T23:03:38 *** gldnspud has left #pycon 2007-02-25T23:04:46 Six`oh`six: that's the best reason so far to stay at a hotel that isn't the conference hotel... I gots me plenty of bandwidth 2007-02-25T23:05:07 *** ErikRose has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:05:19 it was nice and fast on the wired network the day before the conference started 2007-02-25T23:06:30 well sure, before all the annoying people got there to use *your* bandwidth 2007-02-25T23:07:39 *** baijum has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:07:46 * Six`oh`six cries 2007-02-25T23:10:17 *** grb has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:11:15 *** grb_ has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:11:19 *** grb has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:28:22 *** ianbicking has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:29:23 *** shredwheat has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:33:20 *** grb_ has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:35:26 *** grb has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:37:28 *** markluffel has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:37:57 *** philiKON has quit IRC 2007-02-25T23:38:59 *** markluffel has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:39:43 *** shawn has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:46:28 *** yello has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:46:38 Mmm... Apple cider. 2007-02-25T23:48:23 *** Lameiro has joined #pycon 2007-02-25T23:51:59 *** yello is now known as jerry_s